WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.340 --> 00:00:01.769 Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Would that be okay? 2 00:00:02.670 --> 00:00:05.450 Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Oh, and is it okay if we record it, Sally? Is that alright? That's fine. 3 00:00:05.450 --> 00:00:05.930 sally Daley: Who's fine. 4 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:08.210 Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Okay. 5 00:00:08.520 --> 00:00:10.799 Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: It's very short. 6 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:12.960 Tim Frenneaux: Do you want to tell us why you chose this song? 7 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:24.000 sally Daley: Yes, it comes from the community of a so-called spiritual master, who I've since said goodbye to. But the songs were so simple and pure-hearted, I just thought it was perfect for this. 8 00:00:24.290 --> 00:00:27.660 Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: So, shall I go ahead, then? 9 00:00:28.230 --> 00:00:40.180 Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Sunrise over the mountains. We've still got the other music going, that's a bit confusing, sorry. 10 00:00:41.050 --> 00:00:41.820 Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Sorry. 11 00:00:41.860 --> 00:00:43.569 Tim Frenneaux: Thought that was turned off. There you go. 12 00:00:43.570 --> 00:00:44.180 sally Daley: Okay. 13 00:00:44.690 --> 00:01:00.560 sally Daley: Sunrise Over the mountains Spreading your light over the land. 14 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:08.930 sally Daley: Sunrise, another new morning. 15 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:13.190 sally Daley: We celebrate. 16 00:01:13.450 --> 00:01:18.380 sally Daley: We are the new man. 17 00:01:20.050 --> 00:01:20.730 sally Daley: Simple. 18 00:01:21.720 --> 00:01:24.340 Tim Frenneaux: Beautiful. Thank you, Sally. 19 00:01:25.170 --> 00:01:26.050 Tim Frenneaux: Perfect. 20 00:01:27.100 --> 00:01:30.479 Tim Frenneaux: Well, let's continue in that theme. 21 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:39.969 Tim Frenneaux: And we'll just… we'll just take a moment to have a little… a little grounding together. Keep in mind that… that sunrise over the mountains. 22 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:47.360 Tim Frenneaux: So, just relax in your chair, close your eyes if you'd like. 23 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:50.089 Tim Frenneaux: Have a soft focus, if not. 24 00:01:52.170 --> 00:01:54.639 Tim Frenneaux: Bring some attention onto your bleeding. 25 00:01:58.100 --> 00:02:01.000 Tim Frenneaux: Start to sense it coming in through your nose. 26 00:02:02.830 --> 00:02:04.359 Tim Frenneaux: Bring it out to you, man. 27 00:02:08.740 --> 00:02:13.830 Tim Frenneaux: And through the nose… Breathe out a little longer. 28 00:02:17.010 --> 00:02:18.280 Tim Frenneaux: Do you know? 29 00:02:20.630 --> 00:02:25.899 Tim Frenneaux: Nice, long breath, and… We should breathe out. 30 00:02:27.070 --> 00:02:28.940 Tim Frenneaux: Imagine that sunrise. 31 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:30.760 Tim Frenneaux: Over the mountains. 32 00:02:32.380 --> 00:02:35.149 Tim Frenneaux: Imagine the new dawns that it's waking up. 33 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.120 Tim Frenneaux: For everyone who lives in the valleys. 34 00:02:40.420 --> 00:02:42.600 Tim Frenneaux: Goat herd, looking after the goats. 35 00:02:43.640 --> 00:02:46.550 Tim Frenneaux: The newts that swim in the stream. 36 00:02:47.910 --> 00:02:50.489 Tim Frenneaux: Squirrels chattering in the trees. 37 00:02:51.870 --> 00:02:53.500 Tim Frenneaux: Birds in the sky. 38 00:02:55.190 --> 00:02:58.360 Tim Frenneaux: The heather forming a net across the moorlands. 39 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:03.630 Tim Frenneaux: All having that same sunrise. 40 00:03:05.220 --> 00:03:06.849 Tim Frenneaux: I knew, Dawn. 41 00:03:07.270 --> 00:03:09.230 Tim Frenneaux: It brings them something fresh. 42 00:03:10.540 --> 00:03:11.970 Tim Frenneaux: Just revel in it. 43 00:03:12.140 --> 00:03:14.340 Tim Frenneaux: For a moment, with them all. 44 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:41.939 Tim Frenneaux: Because it's important to remember. 45 00:03:42.090 --> 00:03:44.779 Tim Frenneaux: But new dawns aren't just for us. 46 00:03:45.050 --> 00:03:49.360 Tim Frenneaux: spend the rest of life on Earth, this miracle. 47 00:03:49.470 --> 00:03:50.900 Tim Frenneaux: In the middle of nothing. 48 00:03:51.370 --> 00:03:52.990 Tim Frenneaux: We're all in it together. 49 00:03:54.290 --> 00:03:56.739 Tim Frenneaux: And we all appreciate every new door. 50 00:03:58.940 --> 00:03:59.810 Tim Frenneaux: Okay. 51 00:04:00.710 --> 00:04:02.829 Tim Frenneaux: Feel free to open your eyes. 52 00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:05.660 Tim Frenneaux: Bring attention back into the room. 53 00:04:07.660 --> 00:04:13.189 Tim Frenneaux: All the paths in life you take, make sure a few of them are dirt. Thank you, Tracy, I love that. 54 00:04:14.140 --> 00:04:17.350 Tim Frenneaux: And thanks again, Sally. What a lovely way into this. 55 00:04:18.450 --> 00:04:19.490 Tim Frenneaux: So… 56 00:04:19.950 --> 00:04:31.319 Tim Frenneaux: Yes. Today, we are going to talk about Horizon 3, the emerging possible future. So this is really our visioning session for what ASP could be. 57 00:04:31.320 --> 00:04:41.090 Tim Frenneaux: So, last time we looked at Horizon 1, we were looking at the decline of business as usual, and we highlighted a few, we highlighted a few things 58 00:04:41.130 --> 00:04:48.840 Tim Frenneaux: that we know. We've already talked to the idea of ASP wanting to be a more heart-led approach. 59 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:58.429 Tim Frenneaux: We talked about how we get that business needn't be a dirty word, and we get what businesses can be, what potential there is. 60 00:04:58.660 --> 00:05:06.429 Tim Frenneaux: And we reflected on this idea that the time is right for ASP to find its voice. We've got something to say in this moment. 61 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.360 Tim Frenneaux: And there were some tensions that emerged as well, of… 62 00:05:11.410 --> 00:05:26.069 Tim Frenneaux: How we fight fire with fire was the phrase that we used. How we can… how we can be effective in this world, where we want to recognize different perspectives and different viewpoints, and… and… and we're up against a system that 63 00:05:26.070 --> 00:05:38.020 Tim Frenneaux: doesn't do that, that pushes all of it out of the way, and that makes it a lot easier for them to get messages across. So how do we work within that? Well, this is all part of the challenge that we're going to try and rise to today. 64 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:49.159 Tim Frenneaux: So yes, so, so, when you, when you imagine the, the, the Three Horizons framework, I'm not, I'm not going to share a screen. So we, so Horizon 1 was the thing that's in decline. 65 00:05:49.430 --> 00:06:03.949 Tim Frenneaux: And Horizon 3 is the rising possible future, sometimes called the highest possible future. Like, what could we be? What possibility can we find in this moment, and what possibility can we cultivate? 66 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:17.099 Tim Frenneaux: So that's what we're going to talk about today. And then in January, we're going to look at Horizon 2, which is the bridge. How do we bridge between what's in decline in the moment, and what's emerging in the future? 67 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:32.699 Tim Frenneaux: So that's what we'll get to, but today is all about what's our vision for what we could be, how do we respond to the long-term drivers of change, and what are the values and beliefs that underpin our approach. 68 00:06:33.190 --> 00:06:39.830 Tim Frenneaux: So, we're gonna do that in… in… to start off with, in breakout groups. 69 00:06:40.370 --> 00:06:56.999 Tim Frenneaux: I think, Julia, are we good to go into breakout groups? So, our first breakout group is going to be groups 3 or 4, just for 5 minutes, and we're going to think about the underlying principles of a more viable future. And the particular question 70 00:06:57.180 --> 00:06:59.520 Tim Frenneaux: Is, how does it feel? 71 00:07:00.450 --> 00:07:09.770 Tim Frenneaux: So how does it feel to be living in our highest possible future? What sensations does it invoke within us? I'll pop it. 72 00:07:10.780 --> 00:07:12.309 Tim Frenneaux: Can't pop me in the chat. 73 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:15.089 Tim Frenneaux: Junior, have you got it? 74 00:07:15.090 --> 00:07:18.339 Julia Sansome: Put it in the chat, yeah, and then I can open the breakout rooms, if that's all good. 75 00:07:18.340 --> 00:07:20.930 Tim Frenneaux: Amazing. Hello, everybody. 76 00:07:22.440 --> 00:07:34.449 Tim Frenneaux: I know that was ever such a short breakout session, but hopefully you had a chance to just start to feel into it, because it is that feeling of 77 00:07:34.840 --> 00:07:44.309 Tim Frenneaux: being in a different future that we're looking to cultivate. Thank you to those of you who've been making notes on the Miro board. We've got abundance. 78 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:52.149 Tim Frenneaux: Peace and love, reciprocal, healthy. Did anyone want to share anything that came up from your sessions? 79 00:07:54.070 --> 00:07:55.829 Tim Frenneaux: Because otherwise, I'm gonna pick on people. 80 00:08:06.190 --> 00:08:11.069 helena kettleborough: Okay, I'll start. We had lovely words. We had things like trust. 81 00:08:11.770 --> 00:08:16.609 helena kettleborough: We had community of humans, and more than humans, more connected. 82 00:08:16.740 --> 00:08:18.980 helena kettleborough: A lovely word, easeful. 83 00:08:19.230 --> 00:08:29.779 helena kettleborough: And maybe a really profound question about what is work in the future, and maybe more craftspeople, or people doing stuff for personal growth. 84 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:34.779 helena kettleborough: And more work that isn't work, that's more like play, so… 85 00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:45.000 helena kettleborough: We just had a sense of, oh, it'd just been enough, more energy, more food, so people didn't have a cost of living crisis, so it was just a lovely sense. 86 00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:49.059 helena kettleborough: Oh… What might be possible, yeah. 87 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:53.299 helena kettleborough: And I don't think we'd finished at all, we just sort of started. 88 00:08:53.640 --> 00:08:56.589 helena kettleborough: I don't know, Gary or Jenny, do you want to add to that? 89 00:09:04.710 --> 00:09:05.679 Gwyn: You're muted, Jenny. 90 00:09:05.680 --> 00:09:07.010 Tim Frenneaux: You're on mute. 91 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:19.749 jenny wardle: I have builders here at Andakoff, so I'm using. Respect for others, more, you know, respect for community, for relationships, for family, for elders. 92 00:09:19.930 --> 00:09:22.160 jenny wardle: More harmony. 93 00:09:22.450 --> 00:09:24.149 jenny wardle: Between people. 94 00:09:24.710 --> 00:09:29.160 jenny wardle: Less stressed. 95 00:09:29.880 --> 00:09:36.200 jenny wardle: More free abundance, like, more food for free, maybe, more… 96 00:09:36.310 --> 00:09:40.309 jenny wardle: free energy, maybe. These kinds of things. 97 00:09:41.570 --> 00:09:43.629 jenny wardle: Yeah, we had a good chat, I think. 98 00:09:47.500 --> 00:09:57.200 Michelle: Yeah, it was a really nice chat as well, and we could have easily gone on longer. Everybody felt like, oh my god, we didn't have much time. So, but there was a lot of, heart and love. 99 00:09:57.930 --> 00:10:00.760 Michelle: And the abundance thing came up again, that was nice. 100 00:10:01.540 --> 00:10:14.810 Michelle: that, you know, just feeling the energy of kindness, and Mike was saying, talking about, you know, he feels the world in energy, and obviously it's uber chaotic at the moment, and I think a lot of us feel like that as well, so having it more balanced in future. 101 00:10:15.150 --> 00:10:19.439 Michelle: And… and peaceful. You know, there's a peace that comes with that. 102 00:10:20.670 --> 00:10:23.390 Michelle: Was that about right in our little gang? 103 00:10:27.260 --> 00:10:28.050 Michelle: Sweet. 104 00:10:30.520 --> 00:10:36.980 Gwyn: By the way, I'm holding the chair while Tim goes and, that's his second-hand car deal, so he'll be back in a minute, so… 105 00:10:37.410 --> 00:10:44.620 Gwyn: I believe there were three groups, so that's probably two. Who would like to speak from the next… the last group? Tracy. 106 00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:51.430 Tracy Weeks: I don't… sorry if I… I didn't see any hands up, but, sorry if there were. 107 00:10:51.790 --> 00:10:56.319 Tracy Weeks: So it's myself, Damien, Kate, and Lou, 108 00:10:56.920 --> 00:11:04.559 Tracy Weeks: I think that's everyone. So we started talking about GDP, and obviously, how we measure things, and, 109 00:11:05.870 --> 00:11:15.639 Tracy Weeks: how it's not really, you know, good for measuring everything, and some things in life you just cannot measure. And I try and explain to people with that in my design, because, 110 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:30.620 Tracy Weeks: you know, when design for print hasn't gone away, but everyone thinks of design as being a digital thing that has, you know, impressions and responses and everything, and, you know, human world is not really like that. And that, 111 00:11:30.850 --> 00:11:44.060 Tracy Weeks: the things like austerity and trickle-down economics would be coming from the same sort of field, and we know they don't work. So, if we had something that measured, 112 00:11:44.210 --> 00:11:52.389 Tracy Weeks: The balance between those that keep getting more and more and more, and those that have less and less and less, and if the balance… if the… if the measure 113 00:11:52.610 --> 00:11:55.520 Tracy Weeks: Was more about how that gap closed. 114 00:11:55.720 --> 00:12:12.559 Tracy Weeks: that that would be a good way to measure humanity. And we also talked about things like, you know, maybe it could be a moral compass, ethics, compassion, empathy, symbiotic relationships, and revenants that would, 115 00:12:12.800 --> 00:12:16.029 Tracy Weeks: Help to measure these things in a much more human way? 116 00:12:24.980 --> 00:12:27.590 Gwyn: Any other… Additions to that? 117 00:12:33.850 --> 00:12:35.759 Gwyn: Tim, I think it's back to you. 118 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:38.759 Tim Frenneaux: Perhaps. So, so, so… 119 00:12:39.410 --> 00:12:50.979 Tim Frenneaux: I… I… sorry, I had to duck out there. My very old car has been taken away, and someone is now trying to give me some money for it, which is very nice of them, but I'm going to get distracted again in a minute. I loved… 120 00:12:50.980 --> 00:13:02.110 Tim Frenneaux: I loved that bit. I don't think it made it onto the board. I love that enough, that idea of sufficiency as well. So the question is, well. 121 00:13:02.390 --> 00:13:10.240 Tim Frenneaux: what does it mean for ASP, and what does it mean for our work? What does it mean for ASP to be… 122 00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:21.589 Tim Frenneaux: Supporting trust, to be enabling people to find peaceful, to be having sufficient, to be more equitable. 123 00:13:21.590 --> 00:13:31.389 Tim Frenneaux: we'll work with this all the way through, and that's the essence of what this is all about. But has anyone got any, immediate responses to that, about 124 00:13:31.400 --> 00:13:35.809 Tim Frenneaux: What does… what does this… what does this feeling mean for ASP? 125 00:13:44.190 --> 00:13:45.540 sally Daley: I say little Tim. 126 00:13:45.540 --> 00:13:48.989 Tim Frenneaux: Please! This is actually about my own experience, because. 127 00:13:48.990 --> 00:14:02.090 sally Daley: In the last few years since my mother died, and my sister falsely accused me of abuse, and I was in total trauma. So many companies, it became clear, were really more interested in money than my well-being, and… 128 00:14:02.160 --> 00:14:13.700 sally Daley: I've now relinquished my inheritance due to the callousness of the lawyers, so really, I'm starting almost at, you know, rock bottom for me. Other people in a lot worse situation. 129 00:14:14.330 --> 00:14:18.729 sally Daley: But what I've noticed, and this may be useful to people in thinking about this. 130 00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:26.579 sally Daley: is that the administration involved in a lot of companies is appalling. It's so insensitive to the needs of the customers. 131 00:14:26.850 --> 00:14:32.459 sally Daley: And I keep trying to give them feedback, and basically, they're just not interested. In the end, I've just decided. 132 00:14:32.670 --> 00:14:39.699 sally Daley: Okay, relinquish my heritance, give up on all this, I won't use those companies unless I want to exploit them myself. 133 00:14:39.820 --> 00:14:54.400 sally Daley: And, I'll just let them go their own sweet way and find out in their own good time that what they're doing is not supporting humanity, or themselves, actually. It doesn't work. Love works. It's so simple. 134 00:14:56.980 --> 00:14:59.329 sally Daley: That's the end. 135 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:05.019 jenny wardle: I back there, Sally, you know, if you've got a lot of stuff now, if you've got a problem. 136 00:15:05.170 --> 00:15:16.029 jenny wardle: like, I've got a safe in this flat I bought, which I've never used, and I haven't got a clue how to use it, and I need to get it unlocked, and can I find a human being to talk to? 137 00:15:16.470 --> 00:15:24.179 jenny wardle: to find the problem, though. And also, there was something else I was trying to do, and I just… you go around and around in circles, trying to talk… 138 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.889 jenny wardle: Find a human who can understand what you need. 139 00:15:29.590 --> 00:15:32.120 jenny wardle: Yeah. 140 00:15:32.670 --> 00:15:40.240 sally Daley: Do you find it true, Jenny, that it takes ages? You can get to speak to a human in all these companies in the end. 141 00:15:40.550 --> 00:15:49.049 sally Daley: And in 2 seconds, they understand what you need, which no computerized system ever manages to do. That's my experience. 142 00:15:49.410 --> 00:15:54.950 sally Daley: But there are ways around it, but it's so long-winded, that's what I think. 143 00:15:56.030 --> 00:16:11.000 Gwyn: I had a… possibly a glimpse of the future in the present. A couple of weeks ago, I was going down to, Lyon by train on the Eurostar, and it got to the point where it couldn't get through the tunnel, so I had to go back, which meant everybody missed all their connections. 144 00:16:11.180 --> 00:16:13.400 Gwyn: Hotels was risk, etc. 145 00:16:14.260 --> 00:16:25.000 Gwyn: The people who served us from Eurostar were absolutely magnificent. They gave us an abundance of information that was accurate, no BS, 146 00:16:25.110 --> 00:16:34.560 Gwyn: They supported us, and there was about 10 of them dealing with 800 people on the train. We arrived 4 hours late, they booked hotels for everyone they need it. 147 00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:52.569 Gwyn: told us what we could claim, and it's all just worked perfectly. And I actually wrote a letter, a letter, an email, to them, congratulating them on their kindness and humanity. It's because it's actually, as you say, Sally, it's quite rare, but if a big organization like that can do it. 148 00:16:52.640 --> 00:16:55.060 Gwyn: Then there's hope for the rest of them. 149 00:16:59.660 --> 00:17:01.230 sally Daley: Amen to that, Gwen. 150 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:04.060 Damien Mulligan: Tracy's hand is up. 151 00:17:04.069 --> 00:17:05.329 Tim Frenneaux: Tracy, please. 152 00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:25.579 Tracy Weeks: I'm going to try and join those two bits together, I think. Last month, for my mum's birthday, we had a problem with something I went going to, but she said to me, oh, well, you can sort that out, you're quite good at complaining, and I just went, oh, that just made me feel so sad. I mean, she had a point. 153 00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:34.319 Tracy Weeks: But it's because, you know, there's just me, and there's also just her, so we… I've learned over the years that 154 00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:48.689 Tracy Weeks: if something's not right, because, you know, integrity would, you know, beat me internally. And, you know, we need to stand up for ourselves, but I've learned to do that. And I used to work in financial services, in-house as a designer. 155 00:17:48.690 --> 00:17:58.120 Tracy Weeks: So, I got to learn, even when I didn't enjoy the work, that there's 3 words, treating customers fairly, do still hold weight. 156 00:17:58.250 --> 00:18:06.569 Tracy Weeks: And I had to use that a lot with, some work she did, had in her property when, it was damaged. 157 00:18:07.570 --> 00:18:20.750 Tracy Weeks: But it just made me feel sad that I'm, you know, I'm getting to be, you know, known as the person who will say, that's not okay. And I feel like it would be so much better if I didn't have to do these things. 158 00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:27.929 Tracy Weeks: And my energy providers are quite a good example, my previous energy provider, 159 00:18:28.110 --> 00:18:47.880 Tracy Weeks: it cost them so much money, it cost them about £400, because I had to say, no, this is not okay, when I was, working with them on my account and my mum's account, and they continually made mistakes, and I would say, you know, in order for them to learn, the only way that they're actually going to learn is if it costs them money. 160 00:18:47.980 --> 00:19:03.130 Tracy Weeks: that's that GDP thing again. But my now energy provider, I couldn't pay my bills at the end of last year, and they didn't just credit my account with some money from… there's, like, a 161 00:19:03.790 --> 00:19:13.829 Tracy Weeks: an energy fund for people who can't pay their bills. But not only did they do that, they had absolutely… they really had the compassion and understanding for my situation. 162 00:19:14.050 --> 00:19:16.430 Tracy Weeks: And they sent me flowers. 163 00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:27.590 Tracy Weeks: no one has ever sent me flowers from a company before for that kind of situation. And, you know, you just don't forget that sort of thing. 164 00:19:28.370 --> 00:19:30.850 jenny wardle: Which energy company was that, Tracy? 165 00:19:30.850 --> 00:19:32.580 Tracy Weeks: Octopus. 166 00:19:32.950 --> 00:19:33.680 jenny wardle: Oh, really. 167 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:34.410 Tracy Weeks: Yep. 168 00:19:34.520 --> 00:19:36.430 jenny wardle: They're sending me any flowers. 169 00:19:36.430 --> 00:19:50.410 sally Daley: Can I say something about that? Because I have… I have dealings with octopus. They also sent me flowers on my birthday, and nobody now, anyone, anywhere, ever recognises my birthday apart from me, which is fine, I'm 68, for heaven's sake, but… 170 00:19:51.100 --> 00:19:56.369 sally Daley: They also messed it up. I mean, they're well-intentioned, but I'm sorry. 171 00:19:57.050 --> 00:19:58.050 sally Daley: a rude. 172 00:19:58.660 --> 00:20:00.230 sally Daley: Well, I'll say it, cock up. 173 00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:02.580 sally Daley: Because they messed up everything, admittedly. 174 00:20:03.030 --> 00:20:05.509 sally Daley: I think it was maybe being threw over. 175 00:20:07.490 --> 00:20:15.999 sally Daley: I don't know. I'm not interested in analysing it, but what I do recall, and what I've posted on Trustpilot as a review, is… 176 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:30.719 sally Daley: Well, okay, the CEO, magnanimous soul that he is, has given a lot of money and relinquished a certain degree of his income. If I, like he, had $169,000 a year to live on, I think I wouldn't be too worried about the rest. 177 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:32.569 sally Daley: What about that bit? 178 00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:35.850 jenny wardle: That would keep me going for 10 years, quite easily. 179 00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:40.419 sally Daley: So, you know, swing some roundabouts, as far as I'm concerned. 180 00:20:40.870 --> 00:20:55.299 Tracy Weeks: They're all… I mean, a lot of it is personal experiences, isn't it? And we, you know, that's the thing with the human side of it, the personal experiences we have with the individuals, not the large companies itself, but the individuals at the bottom of it, is always what we remember. 181 00:20:55.770 --> 00:21:03.829 Tracy Weeks: it is going back to that Maya Angelou thing about, what, you know, we don't always remember what is said, but how… remember what we… what we feel, don't we? 182 00:21:04.010 --> 00:21:06.180 sally Daley: That's my favourite quote, that one. 183 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.390 Tracy Weeks: But, I'll pass over to Damien. 184 00:21:12.780 --> 00:21:22.419 Damien Mulligan: Thanks, Tracy. I think what I would say to bring all of that together is that, what I think this community has is a level of awareness 185 00:21:22.770 --> 00:21:25.810 Damien Mulligan: About those things, and a level of awareness. 186 00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:31.489 Damien Mulligan: of what's right and what's wrong. We've got a lot of people in the community who have 187 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:35.479 Damien Mulligan: Stepped away from certain ways of doing business, because they're not happy with. 188 00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:41.950 Damien Mulligan: We've got a lot of people then who have… Set up. 189 00:21:42.070 --> 00:21:53.229 Damien Mulligan: organizations or businesses, or even as themselves, are… are acting on behalf of good, and on behalf of a better future, put it that way. I think that 190 00:21:53.590 --> 00:21:55.659 Damien Mulligan: The awareness we have in the community. 191 00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:59.960 Damien Mulligan: Those values of kindness and empathy. 192 00:22:00.150 --> 00:22:06.199 Damien Mulligan: The knowledge we have Of how things can work better, how can work differently. 193 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:17.929 Damien Mulligan: that system thinking perspective, and that came up once or twice last… last time as well. That bigger view. I think all of these are things that… 194 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:27.360 Damien Mulligan: All of these are things that… We can bring to… situations. 195 00:22:27.770 --> 00:22:38.320 Damien Mulligan: And… And… You know, as this question asks, support a more viable future. Because I think that… 196 00:22:38.830 --> 00:22:46.589 Damien Mulligan: and I might be speaking somewhat from my own experience, but certainly it's something that I've witnessed in other people as well, is that… 197 00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:56.909 Damien Mulligan: You know, in a high-power job or in a situation where you're busy all the time, you don't necessarily get the time to sit back and think about these things. 198 00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.250 Damien Mulligan: And very frequently. 199 00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:01.910 Damien Mulligan: when… 200 00:23:02.650 --> 00:23:11.270 Damien Mulligan: Something comes home to somebody, and that might be, you know, sometimes it can be in the context of, 201 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.730 Damien Mulligan: Some sort of a traumatic incident or something like that. 202 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:20.709 Damien Mulligan: But other times, it can be something like a discussion with somebody who kind of opens their eyes. 203 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:22.350 Damien Mulligan: And they kind of… 204 00:23:22.710 --> 00:23:38.399 Damien Mulligan: start to focus inwards a little bit more, and I think that if we can… we can encourage people… I think we have a community here that does a very good job of encouraging people to focus inwardly, and then using that to focus outwardly, and I think that… that those are attributes 205 00:23:38.510 --> 00:23:40.549 Damien Mulligan: That put us in a strong position. 206 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.710 Tim Frenneaux: I love that, Damien. 207 00:23:46.770 --> 00:24:07.620 Tim Frenneaux: So, I'm… the original plan was we were now going to break out into breakout groups and talk about values, beliefs, practices, and norms, and there's a little breakout group for each of those. But I get the sense, and I can see that stuff's starting to happen on the mirror, but I get the sense it might be worth just sticking together and carrying on in this group. What do we think? Damien's nodding. 208 00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:23.049 Tim Frenneaux: Yeah, let's carry on. We will do some more breakouts later on, but I love this, because I think what we're trying to do is go from that… that… that sort of abstract feeling through to, well, how does ASP make this happen? And I think… 209 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:27.459 Tim Frenneaux: I think the thing that I'm thinking about is… 210 00:24:28.190 --> 00:24:38.150 Tim Frenneaux: ASP is a distributed organization, it's a membership, it's a network of people, and that's different to some of the 211 00:24:38.350 --> 00:24:55.670 Tim Frenneaux: to some of the sort of hierarchical organizations that we've talked about already. So… so that means that it is through values and beliefs and practices, rather than written approaches that we're… that we're going to do this. So… so… 212 00:24:55.710 --> 00:25:07.059 Tim Frenneaux: how… what does this… what does it mean for us as ASP? What do we want to pick out? Damien, if you can add that… so that's a great example of 213 00:25:07.060 --> 00:25:17.189 Tim Frenneaux: encouraging people to go inward before going outward is a great example of a… I would call it a practice. Could you add that to the… to the mirror board, Damon? Is that okay? Thank you. 214 00:25:19.410 --> 00:25:34.639 Tim Frenneaux: There's a belief that's already on there, which came from our last session. I think it was Helena who drew our attention to it, and it was this belief in business as a force for good, and this idea that business can be 215 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:42.520 Tim Frenneaux: It can be good. It doesn't… it doesn't… it can support all those feelings that… that… that we talked about. 216 00:25:42.540 --> 00:25:58.040 Tim Frenneaux: So, what else do you… when you think about values, beliefs, practices, and norms, what else comes to people's mind as we're thinking about how ASP can enable those… that… that felt sense of the future? 217 00:25:59.820 --> 00:26:00.960 helena kettleborough: Honestly… 218 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:02.970 sally Daley: Oh, sorry, go on, go on. 219 00:26:03.790 --> 00:26:05.469 helena kettleborough: I think, 220 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:21.470 helena kettleborough: you know, I don't know how we do it, and I know there's going to be work on our new website, and like… but I think values like kindness and empathy are really worth saying that's what we stand for, because if people are kind to each other and empathetic. 221 00:26:21.870 --> 00:26:34.380 helena kettleborough: you know, we can change things. If we've got a difficult situation, if we're kind in it, we can often work it out. And maybe, you know, other words, like collaborating together. So, I think there are some… 222 00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:48.499 helena kettleborough: really profound principles that we work with, and it'd just be really worth saying to people, you know, Damien, I love that, going inwards first, but maybe we go inwards on what does kindness mean to us, and what does empathy… just… 223 00:26:48.550 --> 00:27:00.330 helena kettleborough: for a minute or two. And Gwyn, I know… I don't know if you've got the children's fire lighting, but I… I do love the children's fire because of seven generations into the future. 224 00:27:00.540 --> 00:27:12.810 helena kettleborough: and also kindness and empathy to nature, not just humans or to the climate, you know. So I do think we've got some really wonderful words that maybe we can be more proud of. 225 00:27:13.020 --> 00:27:16.470 helena kettleborough: As our contribution to the future. 226 00:27:18.570 --> 00:27:20.110 Tim Frenneaux: Lovely, thanks a lot. 227 00:27:20.110 --> 00:27:22.950 sally Daley: Can I follow on from that? Because it… 228 00:27:22.950 --> 00:27:25.259 Tim Frenneaux: Sally and then Mike, I know you… 229 00:27:25.260 --> 00:27:30.169 sally Daley: Okay, so obviously this is my experience, but it's like, to me. 230 00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:45.030 sally Daley: in my own personal journey, I've needed to go in first. That is the primary thing. But from that has arisen the understanding about what is needed. It doesn't come as something that you intellectualize and rationalize. 231 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:57.519 sally Daley: consciously, to me, there's very little effort needed. If you are heart-focused, you will have insights into what is needed, and it will evolve from that place. 232 00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:01.900 sally Daley: So, there's no need to worry too much about the technicalities of 233 00:28:02.110 --> 00:28:15.700 sally Daley: You know, how do we do it? You start with the heart, that will tell you. That, combined with your intellect, will tell you what you need to know. So, it's like it's a real invitation to me to just chill out, because 234 00:28:16.340 --> 00:28:20.720 sally Daley: Your body, mind, will do it for you. That is the miracle of the human race. 235 00:28:21.330 --> 00:28:36.659 sally Daley: And the fact that our intelligence is so immense, that we have that capacity to make that change, and that's a huge thing. We may have thoroughly messed it up, you can argue about that until the day is long, but we have the capacity, in my opinion, to put that right. 236 00:28:36.800 --> 00:28:40.009 sally Daley: By equal token, and that is a great liberation. 237 00:28:40.410 --> 00:28:43.470 sally Daley: So, no effort, no stress. 238 00:28:43.670 --> 00:28:48.660 sally Daley: Just come back home, and you will find the way. It's so easy. 239 00:28:49.100 --> 00:28:51.169 sally Daley: Can be. I'm not saying it always is. 240 00:28:51.870 --> 00:28:58.849 sally Daley: The route there may be long and painful, but when you get there, the pathway out is so clear. That's my experience. 241 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:01.190 Tim Frenneaux: Thanks, Sally. 242 00:29:01.780 --> 00:29:03.780 Tim Frenneaux: Go on, Mike, and then we've got Michelle and Lou. 243 00:29:04.520 --> 00:29:06.960 Mike Zeidler: I'm just holding a sort of question about… 244 00:29:07.520 --> 00:29:23.979 Mike Zeidler: the nature of ASP. You know, you kind of reference… we talk about membership. It's a little bit, sort of, you know, I think we talk about it slightly glibbly in a way, because membership is very blurry, and that, you know, and the main thread of our conversation here so far seems to have been about love. 245 00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:31.150 Mike Zeidler: emotional intelligence, ways of being, understanding in the world. And then they kind of think about what other kind of… 246 00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:38.509 Mike Zeidler: And, and, and, and I think, Rob, ugh, crikey. 247 00:29:38.510 --> 00:29:39.240 Tim Frenneaux: Hopkins? 248 00:29:39.290 --> 00:29:41.060 Mike Zeidler: No. 249 00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:55.939 Mike Zeidler: are Rob Barnard Weston, sorry, who wrote his little book on organismics, all those years ago, you know, one of the first… he was part of the first cohort of the masters that… from which ASP originally sort of sprang. 250 00:29:56.500 --> 00:30:03.300 Mike Zeidler: So he talked about organismics as the idea of, of, of… 251 00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:09.110 Mike Zeidler: Less of organizations, and more of… bodies, I suppose. 252 00:30:09.260 --> 00:30:16.410 Mike Zeidler: So all of this rambling, in my head, this makes much more sense, by the way, I'm sorry, so… But what is spinning around are… 253 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:29.580 Mike Zeidler: notions of, well, what other forms of community are there that have these conversations about love, kindness being… understanding the world? Well, they're churches, they're schools, they're, you know, all kinds… all sorts of different communities. 254 00:30:29.580 --> 00:30:38.089 Mike Zeidler: So I… I… it feels to me like ASP is an expression of community, centered around love and kindness, and 255 00:30:38.090 --> 00:30:54.660 Mike Zeidler: equity and fairness and all sorts of things that we… we tend to agree on, because we tend to reflect about who we are in the world, and what the world means to us, and what the world is around us. All of those things we have in… in common. And then, just like so many of those organizations, 256 00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:05.929 Mike Zeidler: Our presence and the way that we appear to each other varies enormously depending on who we are, what the context is, where we meet, who's involved at the time, and it's always… 257 00:31:06.190 --> 00:31:09.710 Mike Zeidler: Got this really… strong essence. 258 00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:18.049 Mike Zeidler: And yet, it's always quite different, because it's always the same, and it's always different. So, the question I'm holding got there in the end. 259 00:31:18.210 --> 00:31:23.170 Mike Zeidler: is about that nature, and about what is it in ASP 260 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:39.810 Mike Zeidler: that feels slightly ASP-ish, and I'm not sure exactly what it is, because I have experience of these sorts of conversations in all of those different types of communities and spaces, with Quakers, with, you know, you name it, with all sorts of people, with brilliant people in universities. 261 00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:45.110 Mike Zeidler: ASP has something indefinably 262 00:31:45.880 --> 00:32:02.460 Mike Zeidler: blended. I think there may be roots of it in that RBP, that master's degree sort of experience, the action researchiness. I don't know what it is, it's… because it's… but it's not just that. I'll stop, because it's a… it's a blurry blur, but, holding some questions. 263 00:32:02.690 --> 00:32:15.369 Tim Frenneaux: And asking what that ASP-ishness is, I think is really valuable. I know we've got Michelle and Gary. If anyone wants to come back on the ASP-ishness, do… 264 00:32:16.170 --> 00:32:17.209 Tim Frenneaux: Go on, Jenny. 265 00:32:17.560 --> 00:32:20.989 Tim Frenneaux: Sorry, is that okay, Gary and Michelle? Let's just carry this thread on. 266 00:32:20.990 --> 00:32:26.780 jenny wardle: I think, having been away from ASP for a while, and I knew ASP 267 00:32:27.010 --> 00:32:33.350 jenny wardle: probably about 30-odd years ago, when I was living in Cheltenham, and at that time, ASP was very… 268 00:32:34.340 --> 00:32:38.860 jenny wardle: revolutionary, in a way. There were lots of people doing. 269 00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:58.700 jenny wardle: really innovative green stuff, the biofuels, energy, and things were happening and stuff, so ahead of time. So, what is ASP-ish? It's being, and thinking and doing, doing at that forefront. And also, I think about being… 270 00:32:58.790 --> 00:33:17.630 jenny wardle: very practical, because I'm going to lots of events now around this soft stuff of let's be in community, and I'm not meaning to be derogatory or anything, but, you know, but those values are important, the values of trust and respect and kindness and those things. 271 00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:18.910 jenny wardle: And… 272 00:33:19.470 --> 00:33:33.999 jenny wardle: I think where ASP maybe can take a lead is in making those part of everyday activity, not just being, softly, softly, let's build a community, but let's just do it. 273 00:33:34.220 --> 00:33:36.559 jenny wardle: Let's just be it. Be the change. 274 00:33:38.350 --> 00:33:44.579 jenny wardle: So, I think ASP is… Radical thinking and actually making it happen. 275 00:33:44.830 --> 00:33:47.160 jenny wardle: That's radical, isn't it? There we go. 276 00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:50.200 Tim Frenneaux: Can I just add? 277 00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:58.979 sally Daley: Because to me, and this is just a thought that's passed through my head, what is unique about ASP is it's the relationship between 278 00:33:59.140 --> 00:34:00.630 sally Daley: being heartfelt. 279 00:34:00.790 --> 00:34:05.330 sally Daley: And being engaged in business, where there are precedents 280 00:34:05.430 --> 00:34:07.890 sally Daley: Which we may not thoroughly admire. 281 00:34:08.659 --> 00:34:18.170 sally Daley: So it's about business and that relationship between being heart-led and actually earning a living wage. You know, there's nothing wrong with 282 00:34:18.630 --> 00:34:25.570 sally Daley: you know, earning a decent wage. The only problem comes when that becomes a focus instead of humanity itself. 283 00:34:27.190 --> 00:34:28.570 Tim Frenneaux: No problem. 284 00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:34.839 Tim Frenneaux: Put, Michelle and Gary, and then Lou. 285 00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:37.370 Michelle: Yeah. 286 00:34:37.580 --> 00:34:48.500 Michelle: I love the value stuff, and it kind of sits where I hold the space for collaboration and stuff like this as well, because when I speak to other, like, networks and things. 287 00:34:48.949 --> 00:34:56.390 Michelle: Some of those just don't have the heart, and are really like, oh, the heart exists. 288 00:34:56.510 --> 00:35:04.510 Michelle: And we feel, kind of, a space there at the moment, which I think is quite important in the world of, 289 00:35:04.740 --> 00:35:15.420 Michelle: collaboration. You know, there's lots of questions in the future about how we have alliances built as well. We've got this very woolly, 290 00:35:15.640 --> 00:35:25.179 Michelle: incoherent template for building alliances, which has been wonderful, but there's, like, gazillions of amazing groups and organizations out there. 291 00:35:25.350 --> 00:35:30.449 Michelle: And… I could blow my mind in terms of, you know, what that 292 00:35:31.020 --> 00:35:50.680 Michelle: starry universe looks like across our planet, and I would love to get everybody, like, myceliummed up, but I think we already probably are, so it's about, you know, how to just make that heartbeat, I guess, drive that heartbeat through into these other networks. 293 00:35:52.250 --> 00:36:05.379 Michelle: And then, potentially, I do think as well, and we, you know, we've talked about this in the board, we're a company at the moment, but perhaps that doesn't serve our purpose either, because a lot of our work is so… 294 00:36:05.540 --> 00:36:11.650 Michelle: heart-led that maybe it should be falling under, like, you know, charity-type work, because that… 295 00:36:11.890 --> 00:36:14.819 Michelle: That feels like we're more likely to… 296 00:36:15.390 --> 00:36:18.650 Michelle: We're more likely to be able to, 297 00:36:18.940 --> 00:36:22.529 Michelle: pay people to do the work that we want to have done, I guess. 298 00:36:22.790 --> 00:36:26.460 Michelle: And we all recognise that to some degree or other, so… 299 00:36:26.690 --> 00:36:36.010 Michelle: So they're the kind of questions that I've been, like, wrestling with, and I know talking with Helena and other, you know, people, so I'm gonna chuck that out there for the future, too. Thanks. 300 00:36:36.730 --> 00:36:59.120 Tim Frenneaux: Thanks, Michelle. And a lot of that is what we'll come back to, particularly in January in Horizon 2, so we'll look at other organizations that are similar to ours, and what's different, and what's the same, and what relationship do we want to have? Is there anything we want to learn from them? Is there anything we can offer to them? So that, and the practical stuff of what does this mean for ASP is very much… 301 00:36:59.210 --> 00:37:00.759 Tim Frenneaux: Is very much where we're going. 302 00:37:01.150 --> 00:37:02.150 Tim Frenneaux: Carrie. 303 00:37:04.670 --> 00:37:05.899 gary spinks: Thanks, Tim. 304 00:37:06.450 --> 00:37:13.160 gary spinks: Yeah, in terms of approach or principles, two words spring to mind for me, 305 00:37:13.330 --> 00:37:28.189 gary spinks: one is curiosity, and one is exploration, and those are certainly two words that I've been exploring, in my, sort of, transition back into, sort of, journalism, looking… because traditionally that's been a, 306 00:37:28.720 --> 00:37:30.440 gary spinks: profession where 307 00:37:30.680 --> 00:37:49.000 gary spinks: journalists are experts, and they tell you what the news is, and you just take, take it, you take what we give you. Whereas I've been looking at, you know, what if the journalist is not the expert, but is someone who's there actually just to ask the questions. 308 00:37:49.150 --> 00:38:07.159 gary spinks: find out what the picture is, and then also look at the picture as pictures underneath, and around it, and beyond it. I'm just wondering whether those… those two elements would be a useful part of our practice and advancement. 309 00:38:10.250 --> 00:38:13.459 Tim Frenneaux: Absolutely, certainly, certainly so. Thanks, Gary. 310 00:38:14.900 --> 00:38:28.449 Tim Frenneaux: Lou, welcome, welcome to ASP. I mean, baptism by fire, we're trying to work out what we are, so I'm sure as a member of… was it this afternoon that you first got to know Gwen? 311 00:38:28.670 --> 00:38:34.159 Tim Frenneaux: This is us, welcome! We'd love to hear what you think of it. 312 00:38:35.240 --> 00:38:44.270 Lou D: Yeah, it's really… oh, no, thank you very much for welcoming me, you know, so suddenly, you know, I've kind of come in today and… 313 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:59.169 Lou D: spoke to, Gwyn a few hours ago. I just felt that everything Gwynne said on the call earlier resonated so much, and I've come back from overseas, from Australia, trying to kind of find a tribe. 314 00:38:59.180 --> 00:39:17.259 Lou D: Two, kind of, reflections, and again, I really want to be sitting in this, kind of, with the presencing of it, not to offer solutions or anything. I just want to listen today and really discover who you are. 315 00:39:17.410 --> 00:39:32.049 Lou D: one reflection I had was until I sat on the Green Meets, and I do know Tracy and Gary and… from the Green Meets, group, that we've all joined, and I met Gwyn on the Green Meets as well, so that was brilliant. 316 00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:46.100 Lou D: I really didn't know who ASP was, and I've been in the sustainability space for some time, but I guess, granted, I have been in Australia, and I did check, it doesn't seem to have many members over there. 317 00:39:46.780 --> 00:39:57.710 Lou D: So, my first thing would be, where is the visibility showing up? Because without that, 318 00:39:57.710 --> 00:40:07.470 Lou D: you know, who knows what ASP would stand for? So that's just coming in as an outsider who has been in sustainability for… 319 00:40:07.470 --> 00:40:10.259 Lou D: You know, nearly a decade. 320 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:22.880 Lou D: I… and I love what you're doing. I think it's an amazing, it's an amazing space. I see it as a very much a presencing space to… to hold what the future, you know. 321 00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:31.619 Lou D: what can unfold and hold that emergence. And I see it as a very symbiotic space. 322 00:40:31.730 --> 00:40:50.670 Lou D: I keep ranting on about Symbiosis, but I've just watched Symbiotic Earth 4.0. I can thoroughly recommend that. It's a film on Lynn Morgulis. It's just magnificent. And then I watched Regenerative… Regenerating Life. I think John Fellman has done them. But, 323 00:40:50.860 --> 00:40:52.809 Lou D: One thing that did come… 324 00:40:53.080 --> 00:41:00.399 Lou D: to my thinking, and this is not a solution by any means, and you may have this, I haven't checked the website, but, 325 00:41:00.520 --> 00:41:07.809 Lou D: when I talk about the ASP is, you know, the ASPing, or what does that mean to the world. 326 00:41:07.810 --> 00:41:23.690 Lou D: who are, you know, how do we represent that, the ASP group, community, is… I don't know if you have a manifesto or something that kind of puts… I know that you've got your three principles and three pillars, but do you have a kind of… 327 00:41:23.690 --> 00:41:32.240 Lou D: you know, this is how we imagine the future, you know, have you got that document that says this is how we… I mean, I know you're creating the Miro board now. 328 00:41:32.270 --> 00:41:34.489 Lou D: In real time. I haven't… 329 00:41:34.620 --> 00:41:45.500 Lou D: contributed to that yet, but is there a document that says this is a manifesto on how we see, or how we'd like to bring the future into being? 330 00:41:45.630 --> 00:41:54.279 Lou D: I don't know, those are some thoughts that come to mind. And maybe I'm just rambling on, but this is just coming out of my head right now. 331 00:41:54.280 --> 00:42:06.349 Tim Frenneaux: Brilliant, thanks, thanks, Lou. And the symbiosis feels particularly, you know, a real distinct contribution. Helena, I'm looking… I'm guessing you were responding to that. 332 00:42:06.350 --> 00:42:11.749 helena kettleborough: Yes, thank you so much, Lou, and I really like the idea of, 333 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:24.900 helena kettleborough: ASP holding an emerging space, because I think you're right, because the narratives out there at the moment are very depressing. Yeah. Actually, what we're creating in here, or trying to hold. 334 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:35.480 helena kettleborough: it is a narrative of hope, and I think that's a lovely image, that we hold it, and it's emergent. But the other point I want to pick up with you, and it does relate to what Mike said earlier. 335 00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:48.300 helena kettleborough: And maybe we need to think about this more, is there are wonderful ideas out there, like Lynn Margulis, like James Lovelock, there are wonderful people, Thomas Berry, there's Wangarami Matai. 336 00:42:48.330 --> 00:42:55.470 helena kettleborough: And maybe that's a little bit of our contribution, is how do we get these wonderful ideas 337 00:42:55.570 --> 00:43:01.349 helena kettleborough: more out from very small niches. So, all the ideas are there. 338 00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:08.859 helena kettleborough: But they're very small, and I wonder if that might be a bit of our contribution. 339 00:43:09.030 --> 00:43:18.480 helena kettleborough: is can we share this a little bit wider in this emerging space? So thank you, Lou. I thought those lovely images for what we might be. 340 00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:30.459 Lou D: Yeah, and thanks, Helena. There's two things I want to quickly mention, is what stood out to me with that film was… and again, it's taught in biology classes, you know, my daughter's just done biology here. 341 00:43:30.460 --> 00:43:40.369 Lou D: not ALL, but GCSE, and they're still teaching survival of the fittest, the selfish gene. Well, that is neo-Darwinism, and essentially. 342 00:43:40.470 --> 00:43:47.249 Lou D: that is not how nature works. And we got Darwin wrong, and really, I feel that… 343 00:43:47.420 --> 00:43:57.770 Lou D: could ASB be a… ASP be a space that kind of communicates those messages out to the world? I don't know, I'm just throwing things. 344 00:43:58.020 --> 00:44:07.699 Tim Frenneaux: And that was one of the things, Lou, that came from last session, was this idea of XP finding a voice and putting this stuff out into the world, so that's that. 345 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:22.269 Tim Frenneaux: Helena, can I just clarify one? You talked about, sort of these niche ideas and drawing them out. Are you meaning sharing them with the community, or are you meaning… 346 00:44:22.700 --> 00:44:30.630 Tim Frenneaux: Using community members' experience of applying them, and sort of almost scaling from that, sharing that. 347 00:44:30.630 --> 00:44:48.630 helena kettleborough: I think all of it, to be honest. I think it's teaching ourselves, it's sharing it out there, it's scaling, it's just a wonderful thing, and once we start playing with it, we have a huge amount of expertise, because, as Mike pointed out earlier, we have a sister organization. 348 00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:59.179 helena kettleborough: Which is, a closed email community, but they're full of sustainability people, and some of whom have joined this organization. So, we do have… 349 00:44:59.180 --> 00:45:10.330 helena kettleborough: access to people with a lot of knowledge and experience. And I know Mike's going to speak next, so you might… if you want to, Mike, you might amplify that, but I think it's an untapped resource. 350 00:45:10.460 --> 00:45:11.669 helena kettleborough: That we've got. 351 00:45:15.090 --> 00:45:15.899 Tim Frenneaux: I'm like… 352 00:45:18.260 --> 00:45:32.129 Mike Zeidler: I just… this may just be me, and I just wanted to respond in one way. So, I think something about the… the uniqueness of… it's not unique, but, something about the ASP-ness of ASP, 353 00:45:32.260 --> 00:45:39.149 Mike Zeidler: embracing… As much as it can of nature's ways, is that I feel 354 00:45:39.340 --> 00:45:50.840 Mike Zeidler: I see it, or understand it, also as being a bit of a quantum kind of thing. So it's a both-and place. On the one hand, yes, you want manifestos and clarity and 355 00:45:51.140 --> 00:46:02.719 Mike Zeidler: you know, direction and all sorts of those sorts of things. And yet, it's also true, in my experience, that ASP appears whenever a couple of ASP people get together. 356 00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:21.389 Mike Zeidler: And it's completely adaptive, and ephemeral, and emergent, and in the moment. And that can have all sorts of effects, real, long-term, you know, do you know what I mean? So I think there's something in this conversation about holding 357 00:46:21.600 --> 00:46:37.159 Mike Zeidler: the dynamic tension between these two apparently opposed, or, you know, in… you know, you can't… you feel like, we feel like, the way that we're trained to think, you can't integrate them, and yet I think it's true that they're both there. 358 00:46:37.290 --> 00:46:42.540 Mike Zeidler: So on one… in one hand, ASP Is everywhere and nothing, and… 359 00:46:43.120 --> 00:46:48.550 Mike Zeidler: And it's also… do you know what I mean? Anyway, a both-and quantum thought for you. 360 00:46:50.680 --> 00:46:53.809 Tim Frenneaux: Wow, quantum thoughts on a Thursday afternoon. 361 00:46:54.980 --> 00:47:09.030 Tim Frenneaux: There's some unpacking for us to do. That's fabulous. I mean, look at the richness that's come from that. I'm so grateful to everyone for their contributions. 362 00:47:09.590 --> 00:47:17.630 Tim Frenneaux: We're gonna… we're gonna continue in this fight, but I think part of… 363 00:47:17.850 --> 00:47:29.579 Tim Frenneaux: how you hold space for emergence is that you literally make space for it. And so, what I suggest we do is just take a quick, quick comfort break, quick 5-minute comfort break. 364 00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:30.770 Tim Frenneaux: And… 365 00:47:30.890 --> 00:47:45.319 Tim Frenneaux: whilst you're making a tea, or do whatever you want to do in your comfort break, I want you to think about the long-term trends that are affecting the world at the moment, the long-term trends that can lead us 366 00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:53.860 Tim Frenneaux: towards that more… more viable future, or that take us away from that more viable future. And when we come back. 367 00:47:54.020 --> 00:48:08.370 Tim Frenneaux: We're gonna… we're gonna share those trends, we'll just do it in the chat, and then we're gonna go, right, well, so… so this is what we want AS… and I think… I think quantum… quantum understanding is one of those long-term trends, for example. 368 00:48:08.950 --> 00:48:16.770 Tim Frenneaux: Just a symbi… symbiosis. So we've… we've got lots of them. So, so we'll just… we'll just step away… 369 00:48:16.870 --> 00:48:19.200 Tim Frenneaux: From the values and beliefs for a minute. 370 00:48:19.270 --> 00:48:21.290 Tim Frenneaux: Think about long-term trends. 371 00:48:21.290 --> 00:48:42.550 Tim Frenneaux: And then after we've done that, we'll come back and go, how do we respond to these long-term trends? We've got some great examples of what we should do that's start to come through already. But yeah, long-term trends. What are the drivers that are affecting the world in which we're entangled? Pause and come back at… 372 00:48:43.310 --> 00:48:48.010 Tim Frenneaux: By my clock, 16, 30… 8. 373 00:48:48.510 --> 00:48:49.190 Tim Frenneaux: Okay. 374 00:49:02.890 --> 00:49:04.270 Tim Frenneaux: in the chat. 375 00:49:05.120 --> 00:49:07.159 Tim Frenneaux: Don't press send. 376 00:49:07.420 --> 00:49:17.400 Tim Frenneaux: Because the trends that you offer will influence everyone else's, so what I want to do is get everyone's… everyone's thoughts in the chat. We'll make time… I can see lots of folks, I haven't come back yet. 377 00:49:18.720 --> 00:49:21.620 Tim Frenneaux: We'll get everyone to pop their long-term trends in the chat. 378 00:49:22.010 --> 00:49:31.600 Tim Frenneaux: And then we'll all press return at the same time, and then we're not influenced by everyone else's, so we'll see where we get to. 379 00:49:31.600 --> 00:49:37.820 helena kettleborough: Tim, can I just check with you? Are you talking about long-term trends like climate change, or… 380 00:49:38.130 --> 00:49:42.820 helena kettleborough: Biodiversity loss, or what… what… what… or business… what long-term. 381 00:49:42.820 --> 00:49:47.930 Tim Frenneaux: Yes, but also, you know, social trends. 382 00:49:47.930 --> 00:49:49.690 helena kettleborough: Okay, yeah, any long-term. 383 00:49:49.690 --> 00:50:03.100 Tim Frenneaux: Any trends that shape the environment in which we're working with, and either propel us towards or pull us back from the future that we imagine? 384 00:50:03.490 --> 00:50:04.090 helena kettleborough: Hmm. 385 00:50:12.690 --> 00:50:15.719 helena kettleborough: Amy, I'm just checking, you're in Dublin, aren't you? 386 00:50:16.750 --> 00:50:25.480 helena kettleborough: I mean, we're close… pretty close to Dublin, yes. Pretty close to Dublin, yeah, because we should be… when we should be ASP, we're international. 387 00:50:26.680 --> 00:50:31.380 helena kettleborough: Yeah, that's what, that's what I'm thinking. 388 00:50:33.660 --> 00:50:43.670 Tim Frenneaux: We are international. Welcome back, everyone. Just to say, we're gonna… we're gonna pop our long-term trends in the chat, but don't press send. So… so… 389 00:50:43.860 --> 00:50:45.560 Tim Frenneaux: Give it a moment. 390 00:50:47.690 --> 00:50:53.980 Tim Frenneaux: And we'll pop them in together, and then we'll see what we get to, and then we'll look at how we respond as an organization. 391 00:50:56.830 --> 00:50:57.610 Tim Frenneaux: Sweet. 392 00:50:58.110 --> 00:51:01.929 Tim Frenneaux: If you can give me a little thumbs up when you've got yours in. 393 00:51:07.150 --> 00:51:10.869 Tim Frenneaux: T's in, Damien's in, Michelle's in… 394 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:18.970 Tim Frenneaux: The pressure. Gary's done. 395 00:51:21.610 --> 00:51:23.170 Tim Frenneaux: Julia's done. 396 00:51:24.410 --> 00:51:28.090 Tim Frenneaux: Mike's thinking long and hard about his long-term trends. 397 00:51:29.040 --> 00:51:38.520 Tim Frenneaux: It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because there's so much. Right, we're going to count down from 3… 2… 398 00:51:38.710 --> 00:51:42.000 Tim Frenneaux: 1. Hit return. Let's see what we've got. 399 00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:43.720 Tim Frenneaux: Wow. 400 00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:57.059 Tim Frenneaux: Economic inequality… AI… Energy against the challenges, kids less concerned about other ring, yeah? Fabulous. 401 00:51:58.750 --> 00:52:10.500 Tim Frenneaux: Excellent. Growth in renewables, increased diversity, communication and connection, communication and connection. Feels so important for a network, doesn't it? Communication and connection. 402 00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:21.619 Tim Frenneaux: Flip side, fake news, misinformation, AI, mass unemployment. I think, yeah, second time that AI has come up, that's clearly one. Entropy, wow. 403 00:52:22.600 --> 00:52:38.069 Tim Frenneaux: science and Tech Advances… Greed and violence, health, well-being, emotional, physical… Surveillance, wow. 404 00:52:38.330 --> 00:52:50.610 Tim Frenneaux: Amazing. And Damien's doing an amazing job of copying these notes into that. Thanks so much, Damien. Mike, what do you mean by entropy? I mean, I'm intrigued by your… by your. 405 00:52:50.610 --> 00:52:54.110 Mike Zeidler: Sorry, I panicked, I didn't act. 406 00:52:55.050 --> 00:53:00.470 Mike Zeidler: It's just a… it's just a rule of the natural world. Entropy will continue. 407 00:53:00.470 --> 00:53:03.319 Michelle: I love that. Panic entropy, 408 00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:05.250 Tim Frenneaux: I don't plan for food. 409 00:53:07.180 --> 00:53:09.750 Gwyn: It's fundamentally the idea that all energy 410 00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:20.210 Gwyn: deteriorates to its lowest form. Structure is energy, so therefore all matter will decay to… They have no structure. 411 00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:23.449 Gwyn: And that is how… The universe will end. 412 00:53:23.740 --> 00:53:25.619 Gwyn: But that's a few billion years off. 413 00:53:26.970 --> 00:53:28.880 Gwyn: But I like the long-term thinking. 414 00:53:29.600 --> 00:53:30.470 Mike Zeidler: Ray. 415 00:53:31.900 --> 00:53:36.940 Tim Frenneaux: But I think that when you think about entropy in those senses. 416 00:53:37.260 --> 00:53:56.879 Tim Frenneaux: you know, it draws attention to what are you working hard to sustain, and how could you sustain it by working less hard, which is possibly a way in. I mean, it's unsurprising that AI got lots of… lots of references there. 417 00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:01.189 Tim Frenneaux: And that, that certainly seems like something that is… is… is… 418 00:54:02.290 --> 00:54:07.799 Tim Frenneaux: almost opposed to our heart-led approach, so that might be something to talk about. Gwyn? 419 00:54:11.680 --> 00:54:16.050 Gwyn: Just to pick up on that, AI and entropy are really good examples. 420 00:54:16.590 --> 00:54:22.750 Gwyn: I'm a big fan of this book, Time of the Black Jaguar, by, Arkan Leshwala. 421 00:54:22.910 --> 00:54:34.230 Gwyn: And he talks about the proven Indigenous ways of looking at change, and what they identify is that there are many, many different change cycles occurring simultaneously. 422 00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:38.520 Gwyn: Some of them have got a frequency of a few decades. Some of them… 423 00:54:38.750 --> 00:54:56.259 Gwyn: As they point out, they've got ones of 500-year cycles, 2,000-year cycles, and 26,000 year cycles. Now, how a mere human being has… can perceive a change cycle with a wavelength of 26,000 years, in other words, a complete cycle, is beyond me. 424 00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:59.579 Gwyn: But there's lots about Indigenous don't understand. 425 00:55:00.570 --> 00:55:06.489 Gwyn: What they do, though, is they keep in context all the different change cycles. 426 00:55:06.860 --> 00:55:14.499 Gwyn: So there's not one thing happening at any time, there's lots of them, and some of them are reinforcing, and some of them are destructive interference. 427 00:55:14.850 --> 00:55:22.000 Gwyn: And the book, Time of the Black Jaguar, is what the… A Time of the Black Jaguar is… a jaguar kills with one blow. 428 00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:29.240 Gwyn: It's a very quick change, and in their calendar, in their way of thinking, we are now in that period. 429 00:55:29.420 --> 00:55:32.250 Gwyn: Of a short-term, swift. 430 00:55:32.560 --> 00:55:43.839 Gwyn: massive change that will occur over a period of 10, 15 years, and I wrote the book in 2011. But there's also these other waves of change happening. 431 00:55:43.990 --> 00:55:46.710 Gwyn: Which, of course, could completely counteract it. 432 00:55:47.090 --> 00:55:49.939 Gwyn: So where that's got me is to say, well. 433 00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:57.360 Gwyn: The reason we're here today, one of the reasons we're here today, is that good always prevails So far. 434 00:55:57.850 --> 00:56:03.420 Gwyn: We've gradually become less violent and more peaceful over the millennia. 435 00:56:03.860 --> 00:56:18.929 Gwyn: And I think this is important to bear in mind, because it's so easy to get obsessed and sidetracked by the short-term events. You know, the rise of fascism, the rise of individualism, the rise of neoliberalism. But there are other trends happening as well, so… 436 00:56:19.130 --> 00:56:25.339 Gwyn: For me, it just allows me to stay… actually, we've got… we've got more things going on than we… 437 00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:31.330 Gwyn: probably perceive, so we… we shouldn't get too… depressed. 438 00:56:31.690 --> 00:56:37.020 Gwyn: By some of the short-term negative things, because there are long-term positive things as well. 439 00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:40.179 Gwyn: Even if we can't perceive them, but I think we should… 440 00:56:40.950 --> 00:56:43.590 Gwyn: Try and keep our minds and our hearts open. 441 00:56:44.270 --> 00:56:51.480 Gwyn: To these longer things, because they would have just as much influence as the short term, and might negate the short term. 442 00:56:51.600 --> 00:56:52.430 Gwyn: Dope. 443 00:56:52.940 --> 00:56:56.070 Gwyn: It's a difficult practice, but it helps me. 444 00:56:57.290 --> 00:56:58.560 Tim Frenneaux: Lovely. Thank you, Gwen. 445 00:56:59.160 --> 00:57:01.769 Tim Frenneaux: Damon, it looked like you wanted to pick on her. 446 00:57:01.770 --> 00:57:10.570 Damien Mulligan: Yeah, I would agree very much with that. I think that when I consider this question, I actually… 447 00:57:11.190 --> 00:57:20.150 Damien Mulligan: My initial reaction was to think long-term, bigger, bigger change, and so forth, and… I can't… 448 00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:40.999 Damien Mulligan: now change some of these bigger things, but what I can do is I can become involved in what is happening on a local level, or whatever. And I think, you know, we see cities like Hamburg who voted for more stringent net-zero targets. We see cities like Shanghai and Beijing. I read this last week, Shanghai and Beijing 449 00:57:41.070 --> 00:57:55.870 Damien Mulligan: their pollution levels have dropped remarkably in the last 10 years. Somebody talked about winding down the window, putting down the window in the car, and listening for all the noise, and there was no noise. Cars were all electric around. 450 00:57:56.320 --> 00:58:14.629 Damien Mulligan: There was no smoke. You know, we've people… we have… the number of people cycling in London was up 70% from 2000 to 2017. We have… I saw a cool thing there earlier this week. Boston has built a dozen food forests in the city. 451 00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:21.519 Damien Mulligan: on… Lots that were just… discarded or, or, or empty dots. And… 452 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:27.439 Damien Mulligan: They cool the city in the summer, and they allow underprivileged people access to green areas and fruit harvesting. 453 00:58:27.740 --> 00:58:32.440 Damien Mulligan: And they're also changing land ownership models to community, rather than individual-led. 454 00:58:32.730 --> 00:58:34.559 Damien Mulligan: If we look at Wales. 455 00:58:34.980 --> 00:58:43.249 Damien Mulligan: you know, this is the future generations law, which means they have to… public bodies have to consider the impact on future generations. And I was the one that mentioned 456 00:58:43.660 --> 00:58:46.909 Damien Mulligan: renewable energy. I mean, across Africa. 457 00:58:47.110 --> 00:59:03.370 Damien Mulligan: the off-grid solar is changing people's lives and livelihoods. Around 4% of the population in Sub-Saharan Africa now has electricity that they didn't before, thanks to solar panels. And solar PV is the cheapest form of electricity in existence right now. 458 00:59:03.970 --> 00:59:15.980 Damien Mulligan: So… so we're… none of these things are perfect. So, so if we go back to, to, and the reaction that some people will have, these are small things, but none of these are perfect. 459 00:59:16.560 --> 00:59:19.380 Damien Mulligan: At the same time, none of them were true 10 years ago. 460 00:59:20.180 --> 00:59:23.869 Damien Mulligan: We can't let perfect be the enemy of good right now. 461 00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:30.339 Damien Mulligan: I think that… What does it all mean? I think it means that… 462 00:59:30.500 --> 00:59:46.329 Damien Mulligan: there are people out there who are prepared to vote for what's right, who are prepared to make their voices heard when it's clear to them what the possibilities are, what the risks are if they don't act, and they're prepared to act as well. If you think back to what Jenny said about being, thinking, and doing. 463 00:59:47.520 --> 00:59:50.139 Damien Mulligan: We have a community of people who care. 464 00:59:53.200 --> 00:59:54.890 Damien Mulligan: We were full of awareness. 465 00:59:55.180 --> 01:00:00.190 Damien Mulligan: knowledge and experience of how to make those things happen. And I believe… 466 01:00:00.690 --> 01:00:07.590 Damien Mulligan: We're selling ourselves short, and selling future generations short, if we don't find ways to amplify our collective voices. 467 01:00:07.590 --> 01:00:08.170 helena kettleborough: Hmm. 468 01:00:08.500 --> 01:00:11.380 Damien Mulligan: To share that collective knowledge and experience. 469 01:00:11.520 --> 01:00:18.930 Damien Mulligan: And open the doors to bring others into the fold, and play a greater part in changing the trajectory that humanity's on, because 470 01:00:19.390 --> 01:00:22.739 Damien Mulligan: We don't want the trajectory we're headed for. 471 01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:31.040 Damien Mulligan: We don't have to do it alone, either, because like Michelle said, there are… her starry universe, there are thousands of other networks and communities out there. 472 01:00:31.520 --> 01:00:36.279 Damien Mulligan: And… thousands of other people. We see surveys. 473 01:00:36.370 --> 01:00:53.140 Damien Mulligan: across the globe, and sometimes from right-leaning areas that demonstrate a significant majority of people want to see change for good. Maybe not calling it climate, but on nature and environment and well-being, the things that really matter to all of us. 474 01:00:53.510 --> 01:01:00.220 Damien Mulligan: So I think, you mentioned, Tim, you mentioned, 475 01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:02.499 Damien Mulligan: Bookminster, Fuller Resorts at the start. 476 01:01:02.500 --> 01:01:02.870 helena kettleborough: Hmm. 477 01:01:02.970 --> 01:01:05.780 Damien Mulligan: You never change things by fighting the existing reality. 478 01:01:06.270 --> 01:01:11.100 Damien Mulligan: To change something, you have to build a new model, and, what is it? 479 01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:13.710 Damien Mulligan: Make the old model obsolete. 480 01:01:13.970 --> 01:01:21.970 Damien Mulligan: I think… There are people, businesses, and governments who are using technology and psychology and fear to thwart. 481 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:29.379 Damien Mulligan: The efforts of others, and… Toward, actually, where we were starting to make progress. 482 01:01:30.940 --> 01:01:37.020 Damien Mulligan: And I think that those technologies and psychology can be used with love, respect, and equity. 483 01:01:37.450 --> 01:01:40.110 Damien Mulligan: To amplify the efforts of 484 01:01:40.330 --> 01:01:48.669 Damien Mulligan: And find new ways to change the working habits, or the modules of business, or government, or whatever, to more sustainable ones. 485 01:01:48.820 --> 01:01:51.479 Damien Mulligan: And, you know, the question is. 486 01:01:52.680 --> 01:01:56.179 Damien Mulligan: Given the strength of who we are in the community. 487 01:01:56.700 --> 01:02:03.500 Damien Mulligan: Given our awareness of that, given our empathy and our care and our love, How are we doing, Lolf? 488 01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:08.500 Tim Frenneaux: Nope. 489 01:02:08.500 --> 01:02:17.080 helena kettleborough: Damien, I just want to say, I think you might have written our manifesto, actually. I just wanted to thank you so much for that, and say… 490 01:02:17.510 --> 01:02:28.160 helena kettleborough: yeah, let's go for it. And I just want to add, let's put the birds and the, you know, the mammals in, and all the people around the world who are giving their lives, actually, to defend nature. 491 01:02:28.460 --> 01:02:35.789 helena kettleborough: to defend the rhinos, you know, I think it's wonderful, and maybe that's our bit of ASP-ishness. 492 01:02:36.050 --> 01:02:40.059 helena kettleborough: That that we go with that hope, and that's what we… 493 01:02:40.290 --> 01:02:54.490 helena kettleborough: But not just hope, it's very practical. All those examples are practical. They're stuff. And I… I just want to add, in my neighborhood, in inner-city Manchester, we're going for a pilot. We're calling it a nature neighborhood. 494 01:02:54.580 --> 01:03:06.000 helena kettleborough: And I'm… when… you know, I'm very happy to share the documents with you, but it's all about building green corridors, planting trees, organic food, you know? And these are local people, it's bottom up. 495 01:03:06.230 --> 01:03:09.460 helena kettleborough: So, yeah, thank you. That is brilliant. 496 01:03:14.160 --> 01:03:18.899 Tim Frenneaux: And clearly, heartfelt as well, which is… which is really important. Thank you, Daniel. 497 01:03:19.230 --> 01:03:22.350 Damien Mulligan: Apologies if I got a little carried away, just at the moment, took me… 498 01:03:24.020 --> 01:03:29.390 Tim Frenneaux: We can't apologize. Beautiful. Can't apologize. Nothing to apologize. 499 01:03:40.690 --> 01:03:43.450 Tim Frenneaux: Any… anyone else? 500 01:03:44.460 --> 01:03:47.870 Tim Frenneaux: We do all need to get carried away, Kate. That's absolutely right. 501 01:03:49.270 --> 01:03:53.779 Tim Frenneaux: And create environments that allows each other to get carried away. 502 01:03:55.640 --> 01:03:56.600 Tim Frenneaux: Great. 503 01:03:57.680 --> 01:04:03.120 Gwyn: Yeah, something that's only been touched upon, is the global aspects. 504 01:04:03.530 --> 01:04:09.019 Gwyn: You know, ASP is very much a Eurocentric, UK-centric. 505 01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:14.030 Gwyn: We've got quite good representation in, North America. 506 01:04:14.660 --> 01:04:29.020 Gwyn: But recently, we've had half a dozen utterly amazing, all-women join, and members join from Africa, from different countries. And I've been speaking with them and then talking to people that they're influenced by. 507 01:04:29.130 --> 01:04:33.030 Gwyn: And there's just this… Massive. 508 01:04:33.650 --> 01:04:38.859 Gwyn: full of incredibly effective change agents. 509 01:04:39.080 --> 01:04:43.290 Gwyn: And they're just full of positivism. 510 01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:56.209 Gwyn: And arguably, you know, the biggest changes in sustainability will come in those environments. Damien was talking about the micro generation. There are places there that have 19 hours a day of blackouts. 511 01:04:57.400 --> 01:05:02.229 Gwyn: So they don't have internet, so they can't take part. But this micro-generation. 512 01:05:02.510 --> 01:05:10.780 Gwyn: And Mashuda is partly involved in that as well, with his hydrogen cell mitochondria work. It's just enabling these people just to 513 01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:18.900 Gwyn: communicate, connect, and do some amazing projects. And they're doing really simple grassroots projects that have massive impact. 514 01:05:19.590 --> 01:05:27.430 Gwyn: on, on, on the… Environments, but also having massive impacts on businesses and corporates who want to work there. 515 01:05:27.740 --> 01:05:30.280 Gwyn: And… I think this is something that… 516 01:05:30.390 --> 01:05:42.909 Gwyn: we've never really had the bandwidth to focus on, but I could see us, over the next year or so, literally having, like, an African ASP group. 517 01:05:43.510 --> 01:05:45.830 Gwyn: And once we learn to give away. 518 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:55.509 Gwyn: maybe Damien's manifesto, like, Gavin Fernley Jones gives away his manifesto of how he runs his company, so give that away free. 519 01:05:56.250 --> 01:05:59.610 Gwyn: That would enable groups like us to spring up all over the world. 520 01:06:00.870 --> 01:06:04.020 Gwyn: That we don't need to control, but we're just influencing. 521 01:06:04.360 --> 01:06:12.009 Gwyn: And there are groups like us, so we're not the only one, but I think someone's saying, you know, spreading the message, reaching out to people. 522 01:06:12.350 --> 01:06:15.900 Gwyn: I think we can do an awful lot of that in the next 12 months. 523 01:06:16.910 --> 01:06:18.729 Gwyn: And maybe Lou can help us… 524 01:06:19.580 --> 01:06:26.449 Gwyn: establish something in Australia, because we can't work on the same time zone, but they can be encouraged to adopt 525 01:06:26.700 --> 01:06:29.440 Gwyn: The principles and values and ways of being. 526 01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:33.610 Gwyn: That we do, that resonate for them, that fit in their culture. 527 01:06:33.870 --> 01:06:37.540 Gwyn: And there's so much we can learn from them. And one thing that's really… 528 01:06:37.720 --> 01:06:44.829 Gwyn: clear to me is that none of these women have been educated in European or American universities. 529 01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:48.470 Gwyn: And it just is so obvious. 530 01:06:48.700 --> 01:06:54.849 Gwyn: They're just so… Yeah, that's… they just don't… they're not locked in to the status quo. 531 01:06:55.580 --> 01:06:57.280 Gwyn: They're far more adventurous. 532 01:06:57.430 --> 01:07:04.539 Gwyn: And… and positive, they just believe they can make change. It's no doubt. And I think there's enormous… 533 01:07:05.990 --> 01:07:08.100 Gwyn: Co-learning from both sides there. 534 01:07:08.520 --> 01:07:12.069 Gwyn: I just… just want to put that on under Start Doing. Maybe we can… 535 01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:14.340 Gwyn: Open that up as a real possibility. 536 01:07:14.810 --> 01:07:15.490 Tim Frenneaux: Hmm. 537 01:07:15.610 --> 01:07:17.290 Tim Frenneaux: Lovely. Thanks, Greg. 538 01:07:18.790 --> 01:07:26.190 Tim Frenneaux: Okay, so… I mean, what a wide-ranging conversation. 539 01:07:26.410 --> 01:07:40.599 Tim Frenneaux: we need, as we're coming into the final half hour, we need to start bringing it all back together. So really, the question is… is what does this mean for ASP? Who could we be? So… 540 01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:51.530 Tim Frenneaux: what we're going to do is we're going to go back into small breakout groups. There's three breakout groups. Each one is going to look at who we could be for different people. So one is going to look at who we could be for members. 541 01:07:51.760 --> 01:08:05.520 Tim Frenneaux: One is going to look at who we could be for businesses and organizations. One is going to look at who we can be for the rest of life on Earth and future generations, so it's the more than human world and future generations. 542 01:08:05.630 --> 01:08:23.220 Tim Frenneaux: You've been put into rooms randomly. If you don't feel like you're in the right one, let me know, and I'll pop you into a different one. We're going to spend 10 minutes here. Please do capture your thoughts on the Miro board. You don't all need to be doing it, but if there's one person in each room that can do it, that would be fab. 543 01:08:23.260 --> 01:08:30.590 Tim Frenneaux: We'll spend 10 minutes on this, and then we'll get back together, we'll discuss this, and then we'll finish at half past. 544 01:08:31.670 --> 01:08:33.280 Tim Frenneaux: Is that okay, everybody? 545 01:08:34.069 --> 01:08:40.149 Tim Frenneaux: Right, I'm gonna pop you all in. If you don't feel you're in the right room, just let me know, and I'll pop you in a different room. 546 01:08:49.180 --> 01:08:50.360 Julia Sansome: Don't join. 547 01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:55.039 Julia Sansome: one as well. Shall I join one as well? . 548 01:08:55.040 --> 01:08:58.120 Tim Frenneaux: Yeah, pick your, pick your, pick your favorite. 549 01:08:59.090 --> 01:09:06.220 Julia Sansome: Okay, great. I don't really mind, to be honest, so I can go into any one. I'll go into the one that Tracy's in, because she says she has to leave in. 550 01:09:06.229 --> 01:09:06.679 Tim Frenneaux: Right, yeah. 551 01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:07.300 Julia Sansome: Yeah, that's book. 552 01:09:07.300 --> 01:09:08.470 Tim Frenneaux: Excited. Okay. 553 01:09:08.470 --> 01:09:10.130 Julia Sansome: I'll see you guys in a bit. Cool. 554 01:09:10.130 --> 01:09:11.420 Tim Frenneaux: Thanks, Juliet.