Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Would that be okay?
Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Oh, and is it okay if we record it, Sally? Is that alright? That's fine.
sally Daley: Who's fine.
Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Okay.
Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: It's very short.
Tim Frenneaux: Do you want to tell us why you chose this song?
sally Daley: Yes, it comes from the community of a so-called spiritual master, who I've since said goodbye to. But the songs were so simple and pure-hearted, I just thought it was perfect for this.
Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: So, shall I go ahead, then?
Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Sunrise over the mountains. We've still got the other music going, that's a bit confusing, sorry.
Audio shared by Tim Frenneaux: Sorry.
Tim Frenneaux: Thought that was turned off. There you go.
sally Daley: Okay.
sally Daley: Sunrise Over the mountains Spreading your light over the land.
sally Daley: Sunrise, another new morning.
sally Daley: We celebrate.
sally Daley: We are the new man.
sally Daley: Simple.
Tim Frenneaux: Beautiful. Thank you, Sally.
Tim Frenneaux: Perfect.
Tim Frenneaux: Well, let's continue in that theme.
Tim Frenneaux: And we'll just… we'll just take a moment to have a little… a little grounding together. Keep in mind that… that sunrise over the mountains.
Tim Frenneaux: So, just relax in your chair, close your eyes if you'd like.
Tim Frenneaux: Have a soft focus, if not.
Tim Frenneaux: Bring some attention onto your bleeding.
Tim Frenneaux: Start to sense it coming in through your nose.
Tim Frenneaux: Bring it out to you, man.
Tim Frenneaux: And through the nose… Breathe out a little longer.
Tim Frenneaux: Do you know?
Tim Frenneaux: Nice, long breath, and… We should breathe out.
Tim Frenneaux: Imagine that sunrise.
Tim Frenneaux: Over the mountains.
Tim Frenneaux: Imagine the new dawns that it's waking up.
Tim Frenneaux: For everyone who lives in the valleys.
Tim Frenneaux: Goat herd, looking after the goats.
Tim Frenneaux: The newts that swim in the stream.
Tim Frenneaux: Squirrels chattering in the trees.
Tim Frenneaux: Birds in the sky.
Tim Frenneaux: The heather forming a net across the moorlands.
Tim Frenneaux: All having that same sunrise.
Tim Frenneaux: I knew, Dawn.
Tim Frenneaux: It brings them something fresh.
Tim Frenneaux: Just revel in it.
Tim Frenneaux: For a moment, with them all.
Tim Frenneaux: Because it's important to remember.
Tim Frenneaux: But new dawns aren't just for us.
Tim Frenneaux: spend the rest of life on Earth, this miracle.
Tim Frenneaux: In the middle of nothing.
Tim Frenneaux: We're all in it together.
Tim Frenneaux: And we all appreciate every new door.
Tim Frenneaux: Okay.
Tim Frenneaux: Feel free to open your eyes.
Tim Frenneaux: Bring attention back into the room.
Tim Frenneaux: All the paths in life you take, make sure a few of them are dirt. Thank you, Tracy, I love that.
Tim Frenneaux: And thanks again, Sally. What a lovely way into this.
Tim Frenneaux: So…
Tim Frenneaux: Yes. Today, we are going to talk about Horizon 3, the emerging possible future. So this is really our visioning session for what ASP could be.
Tim Frenneaux: So, last time we looked at Horizon 1, we were looking at the decline of business as usual, and we highlighted a few, we highlighted a few things
Tim Frenneaux: that we know. We've already talked to the idea of ASP wanting to be a more heart-led approach.
Tim Frenneaux: We talked about how we get that business needn't be a dirty word, and we get what businesses can be, what potential there is.
Tim Frenneaux: And we reflected on this idea that the time is right for ASP to find its voice. We've got something to say in this moment.
Tim Frenneaux: And there were some tensions that emerged as well, of…
Tim Frenneaux: How we fight fire with fire was the phrase that we used. How we can… how we can be effective in this world, where we want to recognize different perspectives and different viewpoints, and… and… and we're up against a system that
Tim Frenneaux: doesn't do that, that pushes all of it out of the way, and that makes it a lot easier for them to get messages across. So how do we work within that? Well, this is all part of the challenge that we're going to try and rise to today.
Tim Frenneaux: So yes, so, so, when you, when you imagine the, the, the Three Horizons framework, I'm not, I'm not going to share a screen. So we, so Horizon 1 was the thing that's in decline.
Tim Frenneaux: And Horizon 3 is the rising possible future, sometimes called the highest possible future. Like, what could we be? What possibility can we find in this moment, and what possibility can we cultivate?
Tim Frenneaux: So that's what we're going to talk about today. And then in January, we're going to look at Horizon 2, which is the bridge. How do we bridge between what's in decline in the moment, and what's emerging in the future?
Tim Frenneaux: So that's what we'll get to, but today is all about what's our vision for what we could be, how do we respond to the long-term drivers of change, and what are the values and beliefs that underpin our approach.
Tim Frenneaux: So, we're gonna do that in… in… to start off with, in breakout groups.
Tim Frenneaux: I think, Julia, are we good to go into breakout groups? So, our first breakout group is going to be groups 3 or 4, just for 5 minutes, and we're going to think about the underlying principles of a more viable future. And the particular question
Tim Frenneaux: Is, how does it feel?
Tim Frenneaux: So how does it feel to be living in our highest possible future? What sensations does it invoke within us? I'll pop it.
Tim Frenneaux: Can't pop me in the chat.
Tim Frenneaux: Junior, have you got it?
Julia Sansome: Put it in the chat, yeah, and then I can open the breakout rooms, if that's all good.
Tim Frenneaux: Amazing. Hello, everybody.
Tim Frenneaux: I know that was ever such a short breakout session, but hopefully you had a chance to just start to feel into it, because it is that feeling of
Tim Frenneaux: being in a different future that we're looking to cultivate. Thank you to those of you who've been making notes on the Miro board. We've got abundance.
Tim Frenneaux: Peace and love, reciprocal, healthy. Did anyone want to share anything that came up from your sessions?
Tim Frenneaux: Because otherwise, I'm gonna pick on people.
helena kettleborough: Okay, I'll start. We had lovely words. We had things like trust.
helena kettleborough: We had community of humans, and more than humans, more connected.
helena kettleborough: A lovely word, easeful.
helena kettleborough: And maybe a really profound question about what is work in the future, and maybe more craftspeople, or people doing stuff for personal growth.
helena kettleborough: And more work that isn't work, that's more like play, so…
helena kettleborough: We just had a sense of, oh, it'd just been enough, more energy, more food, so people didn't have a cost of living crisis, so it was just a lovely sense.
helena kettleborough: Oh… What might be possible, yeah.
helena kettleborough: And I don't think we'd finished at all, we just sort of started.
helena kettleborough: I don't know, Gary or Jenny, do you want to add to that?
Gwyn: You're muted, Jenny.
Tim Frenneaux: You're on mute.
jenny wardle: I have builders here at Andakoff, so I'm using. Respect for others, more, you know, respect for community, for relationships, for family, for elders.
jenny wardle: More harmony.
jenny wardle: Between people.
jenny wardle: Less stressed.
jenny wardle: More free abundance, like, more food for free, maybe, more…
jenny wardle: free energy, maybe. These kinds of things.
jenny wardle: Yeah, we had a good chat, I think.
Michelle: Yeah, it was a really nice chat as well, and we could have easily gone on longer. Everybody felt like, oh my god, we didn't have much time. So, but there was a lot of, heart and love.
Michelle: And the abundance thing came up again, that was nice.
Michelle: that, you know, just feeling the energy of kindness, and Mike was saying, talking about, you know, he feels the world in energy, and obviously it's uber chaotic at the moment, and I think a lot of us feel like that as well, so having it more balanced in future.
Michelle: And… and peaceful. You know, there's a peace that comes with that.
Michelle: Was that about right in our little gang?
Michelle: Sweet.
Gwyn: By the way, I'm holding the chair while Tim goes and, that's his second-hand car deal, so he'll be back in a minute, so…
Gwyn: I believe there were three groups, so that's probably two. Who would like to speak from the next… the last group? Tracy.
Tracy Weeks: I don't… sorry if I… I didn't see any hands up, but, sorry if there were.
Tracy Weeks: So it's myself, Damien, Kate, and Lou,
Tracy Weeks: I think that's everyone. So we started talking about GDP, and obviously, how we measure things, and,
Tracy Weeks: how it's not really, you know, good for measuring everything, and some things in life you just cannot measure. And I try and explain to people with that in my design, because,
Tracy Weeks: you know, when design for print hasn't gone away, but everyone thinks of design as being a digital thing that has, you know, impressions and responses and everything, and, you know, human world is not really like that. And that,
Tracy Weeks: the things like austerity and trickle-down economics would be coming from the same sort of field, and we know they don't work. So, if we had something that measured,
Tracy Weeks: The balance between those that keep getting more and more and more, and those that have less and less and less, and if the balance… if the… if the measure
Tracy Weeks: Was more about how that gap closed.
Tracy Weeks: that that would be a good way to measure humanity. And we also talked about things like, you know, maybe it could be a moral compass, ethics, compassion, empathy, symbiotic relationships, and revenants that would,
Tracy Weeks: Help to measure these things in a much more human way?
Gwyn: Any other… Additions to that?
Gwyn: Tim, I think it's back to you.
Tim Frenneaux: Perhaps. So, so, so…
Tim Frenneaux: I… I… sorry, I had to duck out there. My very old car has been taken away, and someone is now trying to give me some money for it, which is very nice of them, but I'm going to get distracted again in a minute. I loved…
Tim Frenneaux: I loved that bit. I don't think it made it onto the board. I love that enough, that idea of sufficiency as well. So the question is, well.
Tim Frenneaux: what does it mean for ASP, and what does it mean for our work? What does it mean for ASP to be…
Tim Frenneaux: Supporting trust, to be enabling people to find peaceful, to be having sufficient, to be more equitable.
Tim Frenneaux: we'll work with this all the way through, and that's the essence of what this is all about. But has anyone got any, immediate responses to that, about
Tim Frenneaux: What does… what does this… what does this feeling mean for ASP?
sally Daley: I say little Tim.
Tim Frenneaux: Please! This is actually about my own experience, because.
sally Daley: In the last few years since my mother died, and my sister falsely accused me of abuse, and I was in total trauma. So many companies, it became clear, were really more interested in money than my well-being, and…
sally Daley: I've now relinquished my inheritance due to the callousness of the lawyers, so really, I'm starting almost at, you know, rock bottom for me. Other people in a lot worse situation.
sally Daley: But what I've noticed, and this may be useful to people in thinking about this.
sally Daley: is that the administration involved in a lot of companies is appalling. It's so insensitive to the needs of the customers.
sally Daley: And I keep trying to give them feedback, and basically, they're just not interested. In the end, I've just decided.
sally Daley: Okay, relinquish my heritance, give up on all this, I won't use those companies unless I want to exploit them myself.
sally Daley: And, I'll just let them go their own sweet way and find out in their own good time that what they're doing is not supporting humanity, or themselves, actually. It doesn't work. Love works. It's so simple.
sally Daley: That's the end.
jenny wardle: I back there, Sally, you know, if you've got a lot of stuff now, if you've got a problem.
jenny wardle: like, I've got a safe in this flat I bought, which I've never used, and I haven't got a clue how to use it, and I need to get it unlocked, and can I find a human being to talk to?
jenny wardle: to find the problem, though. And also, there was something else I was trying to do, and I just… you go around and around in circles, trying to talk…
jenny wardle: Find a human who can understand what you need.
jenny wardle: Yeah.
sally Daley: Do you find it true, Jenny, that it takes ages? You can get to speak to a human in all these companies in the end.
sally Daley: And in 2 seconds, they understand what you need, which no computerized system ever manages to do. That's my experience.
sally Daley: But there are ways around it, but it's so long-winded, that's what I think.
Gwyn: I had a… possibly a glimpse of the future in the present. A couple of weeks ago, I was going down to, Lyon by train on the Eurostar, and it got to the point where it couldn't get through the tunnel, so I had to go back, which meant everybody missed all their connections.
Gwyn: Hotels was risk, etc.
Gwyn: The people who served us from Eurostar were absolutely magnificent. They gave us an abundance of information that was accurate, no BS,
Gwyn: They supported us, and there was about 10 of them dealing with 800 people on the train. We arrived 4 hours late, they booked hotels for everyone they need it.
Gwyn: told us what we could claim, and it's all just worked perfectly. And I actually wrote a letter, a letter, an email, to them, congratulating them on their kindness and humanity. It's because it's actually, as you say, Sally, it's quite rare, but if a big organization like that can do it.
Gwyn: Then there's hope for the rest of them.
sally Daley: Amen to that, Gwen.
Damien Mulligan: Tracy's hand is up.
Tim Frenneaux: Tracy, please.
Tracy Weeks: I'm going to try and join those two bits together, I think. Last month, for my mum's birthday, we had a problem with something I went going to, but she said to me, oh, well, you can sort that out, you're quite good at complaining, and I just went, oh, that just made me feel so sad. I mean, she had a point.
Tracy Weeks: But it's because, you know, there's just me, and there's also just her, so we… I've learned over the years that
Tracy Weeks: if something's not right, because, you know, integrity would, you know, beat me internally. And, you know, we need to stand up for ourselves, but I've learned to do that. And I used to work in financial services, in-house as a designer.
Tracy Weeks: So, I got to learn, even when I didn't enjoy the work, that there's 3 words, treating customers fairly, do still hold weight.
Tracy Weeks: And I had to use that a lot with, some work she did, had in her property when, it was damaged.
Tracy Weeks: But it just made me feel sad that I'm, you know, I'm getting to be, you know, known as the person who will say, that's not okay. And I feel like it would be so much better if I didn't have to do these things.
Tracy Weeks: And my energy providers are quite a good example, my previous energy provider,
Tracy Weeks: it cost them so much money, it cost them about £400, because I had to say, no, this is not okay, when I was, working with them on my account and my mum's account, and they continually made mistakes, and I would say, you know, in order for them to learn, the only way that they're actually going to learn is if it costs them money.
Tracy Weeks: that's that GDP thing again. But my now energy provider, I couldn't pay my bills at the end of last year, and they didn't just credit my account with some money from… there's, like, a
Tracy Weeks: an energy fund for people who can't pay their bills. But not only did they do that, they had absolutely… they really had the compassion and understanding for my situation.
Tracy Weeks: And they sent me flowers.
Tracy Weeks: no one has ever sent me flowers from a company before for that kind of situation. And, you know, you just don't forget that sort of thing.
jenny wardle: Which energy company was that, Tracy?
Tracy Weeks: Octopus.
jenny wardle: Oh, really.
Tracy Weeks: Yep.
jenny wardle: They're sending me any flowers.
sally Daley: Can I say something about that? Because I have… I have dealings with octopus. They also sent me flowers on my birthday, and nobody now, anyone, anywhere, ever recognises my birthday apart from me, which is fine, I'm 68, for heaven's sake, but…
sally Daley: They also messed it up. I mean, they're well-intentioned, but I'm sorry.
sally Daley: a rude.
sally Daley: Well, I'll say it, cock up.
sally Daley: Because they messed up everything, admittedly.
sally Daley: I think it was maybe being threw over.
sally Daley: I don't know. I'm not interested in analysing it, but what I do recall, and what I've posted on Trustpilot as a review, is…
sally Daley: Well, okay, the CEO, magnanimous soul that he is, has given a lot of money and relinquished a certain degree of his income. If I, like he, had $169,000 a year to live on, I think I wouldn't be too worried about the rest.
sally Daley: What about that bit?
jenny wardle: That would keep me going for 10 years, quite easily.
sally Daley: So, you know, swing some roundabouts, as far as I'm concerned.
Tracy Weeks: They're all… I mean, a lot of it is personal experiences, isn't it? And we, you know, that's the thing with the human side of it, the personal experiences we have with the individuals, not the large companies itself, but the individuals at the bottom of it, is always what we remember.
Tracy Weeks: it is going back to that Maya Angelou thing about, what, you know, we don't always remember what is said, but how… remember what we… what we feel, don't we?
sally Daley: That's my favourite quote, that one.
Tracy Weeks: But, I'll pass over to Damien.
Damien Mulligan: Thanks, Tracy. I think what I would say to bring all of that together is that, what I think this community has is a level of awareness
Damien Mulligan: About those things, and a level of awareness.
Damien Mulligan: of what's right and what's wrong. We've got a lot of people in the community who have
Damien Mulligan: Stepped away from certain ways of doing business, because they're not happy with.
Damien Mulligan: We've got a lot of people then who have… Set up.
Damien Mulligan: organizations or businesses, or even as themselves, are… are acting on behalf of good, and on behalf of a better future, put it that way. I think that
Damien Mulligan: The awareness we have in the community.
Damien Mulligan: Those values of kindness and empathy.
Damien Mulligan: The knowledge we have Of how things can work better, how can work differently.
Damien Mulligan: that system thinking perspective, and that came up once or twice last… last time as well. That bigger view. I think all of these are things that…
Damien Mulligan: All of these are things that… We can bring to… situations.
Damien Mulligan: And… And… You know, as this question asks, support a more viable future. Because I think that…
Damien Mulligan: and I might be speaking somewhat from my own experience, but certainly it's something that I've witnessed in other people as well, is that…
Damien Mulligan: You know, in a high-power job or in a situation where you're busy all the time, you don't necessarily get the time to sit back and think about these things.
Damien Mulligan: And very frequently.
Damien Mulligan: when…
Damien Mulligan: Something comes home to somebody, and that might be, you know, sometimes it can be in the context of,
Damien Mulligan: Some sort of a traumatic incident or something like that.
Damien Mulligan: But other times, it can be something like a discussion with somebody who kind of opens their eyes.
Damien Mulligan: And they kind of…
Damien Mulligan: start to focus inwards a little bit more, and I think that if we can… we can encourage people… I think we have a community here that does a very good job of encouraging people to focus inwardly, and then using that to focus outwardly, and I think that… that those are attributes
Damien Mulligan: That put us in a strong position.
Tim Frenneaux: I love that, Damien.
Tim Frenneaux: So, I'm… the original plan was we were now going to break out into breakout groups and talk about values, beliefs, practices, and norms, and there's a little breakout group for each of those. But I get the sense, and I can see that stuff's starting to happen on the mirror, but I get the sense it might be worth just sticking together and carrying on in this group. What do we think? Damien's nodding.
Tim Frenneaux: Yeah, let's carry on. We will do some more breakouts later on, but I love this, because I think what we're trying to do is go from that… that… that sort of abstract feeling through to, well, how does ASP make this happen? And I think…
Tim Frenneaux: I think the thing that I'm thinking about is…
Tim Frenneaux: ASP is a distributed organization, it's a membership, it's a network of people, and that's different to some of the
Tim Frenneaux: to some of the sort of hierarchical organizations that we've talked about already. So… so that means that it is through values and beliefs and practices, rather than written approaches that we're… that we're going to do this. So… so…
Tim Frenneaux: how… what does this… what does it mean for us as ASP? What do we want to pick out? Damien, if you can add that… so that's a great example of
Tim Frenneaux: encouraging people to go inward before going outward is a great example of a… I would call it a practice. Could you add that to the… to the mirror board, Damon? Is that okay? Thank you.
Tim Frenneaux: There's a belief that's already on there, which came from our last session. I think it was Helena who drew our attention to it, and it was this belief in business as a force for good, and this idea that business can be
Tim Frenneaux: It can be good. It doesn't… it doesn't… it can support all those feelings that… that… that we talked about.
Tim Frenneaux: So, what else do you… when you think about values, beliefs, practices, and norms, what else comes to people's mind as we're thinking about how ASP can enable those… that… that felt sense of the future?
helena kettleborough: Honestly…
sally Daley: Oh, sorry, go on, go on.
helena kettleborough: I think,
helena kettleborough: you know, I don't know how we do it, and I know there's going to be work on our new website, and like… but I think values like kindness and empathy are really worth saying that's what we stand for, because if people are kind to each other and empathetic.
helena kettleborough: you know, we can change things. If we've got a difficult situation, if we're kind in it, we can often work it out. And maybe, you know, other words, like collaborating together. So, I think there are some…
helena kettleborough: really profound principles that we work with, and it'd just be really worth saying to people, you know, Damien, I love that, going inwards first, but maybe we go inwards on what does kindness mean to us, and what does empathy… just…
helena kettleborough: for a minute or two. And Gwyn, I know… I don't know if you've got the children's fire lighting, but I… I do love the children's fire because of seven generations into the future.
helena kettleborough: and also kindness and empathy to nature, not just humans or to the climate, you know. So I do think we've got some really wonderful words that maybe we can be more proud of.
helena kettleborough: As our contribution to the future.
Tim Frenneaux: Lovely, thanks a lot.
sally Daley: Can I follow on from that? Because it…
Tim Frenneaux: Sally and then Mike, I know you…
sally Daley: Okay, so obviously this is my experience, but it's like, to me.
sally Daley: in my own personal journey, I've needed to go in first. That is the primary thing. But from that has arisen the understanding about what is needed. It doesn't come as something that you intellectualize and rationalize.
sally Daley: consciously, to me, there's very little effort needed. If you are heart-focused, you will have insights into what is needed, and it will evolve from that place.
sally Daley: So, there's no need to worry too much about the technicalities of
sally Daley: You know, how do we do it? You start with the heart, that will tell you. That, combined with your intellect, will tell you what you need to know. So, it's like it's a real invitation to me to just chill out, because
sally Daley: Your body, mind, will do it for you. That is the miracle of the human race.
sally Daley: And the fact that our intelligence is so immense, that we have that capacity to make that change, and that's a huge thing. We may have thoroughly messed it up, you can argue about that until the day is long, but we have the capacity, in my opinion, to put that right.
sally Daley: By equal token, and that is a great liberation.
sally Daley: So, no effort, no stress.
sally Daley: Just come back home, and you will find the way. It's so easy.
sally Daley: Can be. I'm not saying it always is.
sally Daley: The route there may be long and painful, but when you get there, the pathway out is so clear. That's my experience.
Tim Frenneaux: Thanks, Sally.
Tim Frenneaux: Go on, Mike, and then we've got Michelle and Lou.
Mike Zeidler: I'm just holding a sort of question about…
Mike Zeidler: the nature of ASP. You know, you kind of reference… we talk about membership. It's a little bit, sort of, you know, I think we talk about it slightly glibbly in a way, because membership is very blurry, and that, you know, and the main thread of our conversation here so far seems to have been about love.
Mike Zeidler: emotional intelligence, ways of being, understanding in the world. And then they kind of think about what other kind of…
Mike Zeidler: And, and, and, and I think, Rob, ugh, crikey.
Tim Frenneaux: Hopkins?
Mike Zeidler: No.
Mike Zeidler: are Rob Barnard Weston, sorry, who wrote his little book on organismics, all those years ago, you know, one of the first… he was part of the first cohort of the masters that… from which ASP originally sort of sprang.
Mike Zeidler: So he talked about organismics as the idea of, of, of…
Mike Zeidler: Less of organizations, and more of… bodies, I suppose.
Mike Zeidler: So all of this rambling, in my head, this makes much more sense, by the way, I'm sorry, so… But what is spinning around are…
Mike Zeidler: notions of, well, what other forms of community are there that have these conversations about love, kindness being… understanding the world? Well, they're churches, they're schools, they're, you know, all kinds… all sorts of different communities.
Mike Zeidler: So I… I… it feels to me like ASP is an expression of community, centered around love and kindness, and
Mike Zeidler: equity and fairness and all sorts of things that we… we tend to agree on, because we tend to reflect about who we are in the world, and what the world means to us, and what the world is around us. All of those things we have in… in common. And then, just like so many of those organizations,
Mike Zeidler: Our presence and the way that we appear to each other varies enormously depending on who we are, what the context is, where we meet, who's involved at the time, and it's always…
Mike Zeidler: Got this really… strong essence.
Mike Zeidler: And yet, it's always quite different, because it's always the same, and it's always different. So, the question I'm holding got there in the end.
Mike Zeidler: is about that nature, and about what is it in ASP
Mike Zeidler: that feels slightly ASP-ish, and I'm not sure exactly what it is, because I have experience of these sorts of conversations in all of those different types of communities and spaces, with Quakers, with, you know, you name it, with all sorts of people, with brilliant people in universities.
Mike Zeidler: ASP has something indefinably
Mike Zeidler: blended. I think there may be roots of it in that RBP, that master's degree sort of experience, the action researchiness. I don't know what it is, it's… because it's… but it's not just that. I'll stop, because it's a… it's a blurry blur, but, holding some questions.
Tim Frenneaux: And asking what that ASP-ishness is, I think is really valuable. I know we've got Michelle and Gary. If anyone wants to come back on the ASP-ishness, do…
Tim Frenneaux: Go on, Jenny.
Tim Frenneaux: Sorry, is that okay, Gary and Michelle? Let's just carry this thread on.
jenny wardle: I think, having been away from ASP for a while, and I knew ASP
jenny wardle: probably about 30-odd years ago, when I was living in Cheltenham, and at that time, ASP was very…
jenny wardle: revolutionary, in a way. There were lots of people doing.
jenny wardle: really innovative green stuff, the biofuels, energy, and things were happening and stuff, so ahead of time. So, what is ASP-ish? It's being, and thinking and doing, doing at that forefront. And also, I think about being…
jenny wardle: very practical, because I'm going to lots of events now around this soft stuff of let's be in community, and I'm not meaning to be derogatory or anything, but, you know, but those values are important, the values of trust and respect and kindness and those things.
jenny wardle: And…
jenny wardle: I think where ASP maybe can take a lead is in making those part of everyday activity, not just being, softly, softly, let's build a community, but let's just do it.
jenny wardle: Let's just be it. Be the change.
jenny wardle: So, I think ASP is… Radical thinking and actually making it happen.
jenny wardle: That's radical, isn't it? There we go.
Tim Frenneaux: Can I just add?
sally Daley: Because to me, and this is just a thought that's passed through my head, what is unique about ASP is it's the relationship between
sally Daley: being heartfelt.
sally Daley: And being engaged in business, where there are precedents
sally Daley: Which we may not thoroughly admire.
sally Daley: So it's about business and that relationship between being heart-led and actually earning a living wage. You know, there's nothing wrong with
sally Daley: you know, earning a decent wage. The only problem comes when that becomes a focus instead of humanity itself.
Tim Frenneaux: No problem.
Tim Frenneaux: Put, Michelle and Gary, and then Lou.
Michelle: Yeah.
Michelle: I love the value stuff, and it kind of sits where I hold the space for collaboration and stuff like this as well, because when I speak to other, like, networks and things.
Michelle: Some of those just don't have the heart, and are really like, oh, the heart exists.
Michelle: And we feel, kind of, a space there at the moment, which I think is quite important in the world of,
Michelle: collaboration. You know, there's lots of questions in the future about how we have alliances built as well. We've got this very woolly,
Michelle: incoherent template for building alliances, which has been wonderful, but there's, like, gazillions of amazing groups and organizations out there.
Michelle: And… I could blow my mind in terms of, you know, what that
Michelle: starry universe looks like across our planet, and I would love to get everybody, like, myceliummed up, but I think we already probably are, so it's about, you know, how to just make that heartbeat, I guess, drive that heartbeat through into these other networks.
Michelle: And then, potentially, I do think as well, and we, you know, we've talked about this in the board, we're a company at the moment, but perhaps that doesn't serve our purpose either, because a lot of our work is so…
Michelle: heart-led that maybe it should be falling under, like, you know, charity-type work, because that…
Michelle: That feels like we're more likely to…
Michelle: We're more likely to be able to,
Michelle: pay people to do the work that we want to have done, I guess.
Michelle: And we all recognise that to some degree or other, so…
Michelle: So they're the kind of questions that I've been, like, wrestling with, and I know talking with Helena and other, you know, people, so I'm gonna chuck that out there for the future, too. Thanks.
Tim Frenneaux: Thanks, Michelle. And a lot of that is what we'll come back to, particularly in January in Horizon 2, so we'll look at other organizations that are similar to ours, and what's different, and what's the same, and what relationship do we want to have? Is there anything we want to learn from them? Is there anything we can offer to them? So that, and the practical stuff of what does this mean for ASP is very much…
Tim Frenneaux: Is very much where we're going.
Tim Frenneaux: Carrie.
gary spinks: Thanks, Tim.
gary spinks: Yeah, in terms of approach or principles, two words spring to mind for me,
gary spinks: one is curiosity, and one is exploration, and those are certainly two words that I've been exploring, in my, sort of, transition back into, sort of, journalism, looking… because traditionally that's been a,
gary spinks: profession where
gary spinks: journalists are experts, and they tell you what the news is, and you just take, take it, you take what we give you. Whereas I've been looking at, you know, what if the journalist is not the expert, but is someone who's there actually just to ask the questions.
gary spinks: find out what the picture is, and then also look at the picture as pictures underneath, and around it, and beyond it. I'm just wondering whether those… those two elements would be a useful part of our practice and advancement.
Tim Frenneaux: Absolutely, certainly, certainly so. Thanks, Gary.
Tim Frenneaux: Lou, welcome, welcome to ASP. I mean, baptism by fire, we're trying to work out what we are, so I'm sure as a member of… was it this afternoon that you first got to know Gwen?
Tim Frenneaux: This is us, welcome! We'd love to hear what you think of it.
Lou D: Yeah, it's really… oh, no, thank you very much for welcoming me, you know, so suddenly, you know, I've kind of come in today and…
Lou D: spoke to, Gwyn a few hours ago. I just felt that everything Gwynne said on the call earlier resonated so much, and I've come back from overseas, from Australia, trying to kind of find a tribe.
Lou D: Two, kind of, reflections, and again, I really want to be sitting in this, kind of, with the presencing of it, not to offer solutions or anything. I just want to listen today and really discover who you are.
Lou D: one reflection I had was until I sat on the Green Meets, and I do know Tracy and Gary and… from the Green Meets, group, that we've all joined, and I met Gwyn on the Green Meets as well, so that was brilliant.
Lou D: I really didn't know who ASP was, and I've been in the sustainability space for some time, but I guess, granted, I have been in Australia, and I did check, it doesn't seem to have many members over there.
Lou D: So, my first thing would be, where is the visibility showing up? Because without that,
Lou D: you know, who knows what ASP would stand for? So that's just coming in as an outsider who has been in sustainability for…
Lou D: You know, nearly a decade.
Lou D: I… and I love what you're doing. I think it's an amazing, it's an amazing space. I see it as a very much a presencing space to… to hold what the future, you know.
Lou D: what can unfold and hold that emergence. And I see it as a very symbiotic space.
Lou D: I keep ranting on about Symbiosis, but I've just watched Symbiotic Earth 4.0. I can thoroughly recommend that. It's a film on Lynn Morgulis. It's just magnificent. And then I watched Regenerative… Regenerating Life. I think John Fellman has done them. But,
Lou D: One thing that did come…
Lou D: to my thinking, and this is not a solution by any means, and you may have this, I haven't checked the website, but,
Lou D: when I talk about the ASP is, you know, the ASPing, or what does that mean to the world.
Lou D: who are, you know, how do we represent that, the ASP group, community, is… I don't know if you have a manifesto or something that kind of puts… I know that you've got your three principles and three pillars, but do you have a kind of…
Lou D: you know, this is how we imagine the future, you know, have you got that document that says this is how we… I mean, I know you're creating the Miro board now.
Lou D: In real time. I haven't…
Lou D: contributed to that yet, but is there a document that says this is a manifesto on how we see, or how we'd like to bring the future into being?
Lou D: I don't know, those are some thoughts that come to mind. And maybe I'm just rambling on, but this is just coming out of my head right now.
Tim Frenneaux: Brilliant, thanks, thanks, Lou. And the symbiosis feels particularly, you know, a real distinct contribution. Helena, I'm looking… I'm guessing you were responding to that.
helena kettleborough: Yes, thank you so much, Lou, and I really like the idea of,
helena kettleborough: ASP holding an emerging space, because I think you're right, because the narratives out there at the moment are very depressing. Yeah. Actually, what we're creating in here, or trying to hold.
helena kettleborough: it is a narrative of hope, and I think that's a lovely image, that we hold it, and it's emergent. But the other point I want to pick up with you, and it does relate to what Mike said earlier.
helena kettleborough: And maybe we need to think about this more, is there are wonderful ideas out there, like Lynn Margulis, like James Lovelock, there are wonderful people, Thomas Berry, there's Wangarami Matai.
helena kettleborough: And maybe that's a little bit of our contribution, is how do we get these wonderful ideas
helena kettleborough: more out from very small niches. So, all the ideas are there.
helena kettleborough: But they're very small, and I wonder if that might be a bit of our contribution.
helena kettleborough: is can we share this a little bit wider in this emerging space? So thank you, Lou. I thought those lovely images for what we might be.
Lou D: Yeah, and thanks, Helena. There's two things I want to quickly mention, is what stood out to me with that film was… and again, it's taught in biology classes, you know, my daughter's just done biology here.
Lou D: not ALL, but GCSE, and they're still teaching survival of the fittest, the selfish gene. Well, that is neo-Darwinism, and essentially.
Lou D: that is not how nature works. And we got Darwin wrong, and really, I feel that…
Lou D: could ASB be a… ASP be a space that kind of communicates those messages out to the world? I don't know, I'm just throwing things.
Tim Frenneaux: And that was one of the things, Lou, that came from last session, was this idea of XP finding a voice and putting this stuff out into the world, so that's that.
Tim Frenneaux: Helena, can I just clarify one? You talked about, sort of these niche ideas and drawing them out. Are you meaning sharing them with the community, or are you meaning…
Tim Frenneaux: Using community members' experience of applying them, and sort of almost scaling from that, sharing that.
helena kettleborough: I think all of it, to be honest. I think it's teaching ourselves, it's sharing it out there, it's scaling, it's just a wonderful thing, and once we start playing with it, we have a huge amount of expertise, because, as Mike pointed out earlier, we have a sister organization.
helena kettleborough: Which is, a closed email community, but they're full of sustainability people, and some of whom have joined this organization. So, we do have…
helena kettleborough: access to people with a lot of knowledge and experience. And I know Mike's going to speak next, so you might… if you want to, Mike, you might amplify that, but I think it's an untapped resource.
helena kettleborough: That we've got.
Tim Frenneaux: I'm like…
Mike Zeidler: I just… this may just be me, and I just wanted to respond in one way. So, I think something about the… the uniqueness of… it's not unique, but, something about the ASP-ness of ASP,
Mike Zeidler: embracing… As much as it can of nature's ways, is that I feel
Mike Zeidler: I see it, or understand it, also as being a bit of a quantum kind of thing. So it's a both-and place. On the one hand, yes, you want manifestos and clarity and
Mike Zeidler: you know, direction and all sorts of those sorts of things. And yet, it's also true, in my experience, that ASP appears whenever a couple of ASP people get together.
Mike Zeidler: And it's completely adaptive, and ephemeral, and emergent, and in the moment. And that can have all sorts of effects, real, long-term, you know, do you know what I mean? So I think there's something in this conversation about holding
Mike Zeidler: the dynamic tension between these two apparently opposed, or, you know, in… you know, you can't… you feel like, we feel like, the way that we're trained to think, you can't integrate them, and yet I think it's true that they're both there.
Mike Zeidler: So on one… in one hand, ASP Is everywhere and nothing, and…
Mike Zeidler: And it's also… do you know what I mean? Anyway, a both-and quantum thought for you.
Tim Frenneaux: Wow, quantum thoughts on a Thursday afternoon.
Tim Frenneaux: There's some unpacking for us to do. That's fabulous. I mean, look at the richness that's come from that. I'm so grateful to everyone for their contributions.
Tim Frenneaux: We're gonna… we're gonna continue in this fight, but I think part of…
Tim Frenneaux: how you hold space for emergence is that you literally make space for it. And so, what I suggest we do is just take a quick, quick comfort break, quick 5-minute comfort break.
Tim Frenneaux: And…
Tim Frenneaux: whilst you're making a tea, or do whatever you want to do in your comfort break, I want you to think about the long-term trends that are affecting the world at the moment, the long-term trends that can lead us
Tim Frenneaux: towards that more… more viable future, or that take us away from that more viable future. And when we come back.
Tim Frenneaux: We're gonna… we're gonna share those trends, we'll just do it in the chat, and then we're gonna go, right, well, so… so this is what we want AS… and I think… I think quantum… quantum understanding is one of those long-term trends, for example.
Tim Frenneaux: Just a symbi… symbiosis. So we've… we've got lots of them. So, so we'll just… we'll just step away…
Tim Frenneaux: From the values and beliefs for a minute.
Tim Frenneaux: Think about long-term trends.
Tim Frenneaux: And then after we've done that, we'll come back and go, how do we respond to these long-term trends? We've got some great examples of what we should do that's start to come through already. But yeah, long-term trends. What are the drivers that are affecting the world in which we're entangled? Pause and come back at…
Tim Frenneaux: By my clock, 16, 30… 8.
Tim Frenneaux: Okay.
Tim Frenneaux: in the chat.
Tim Frenneaux: Don't press send.
Tim Frenneaux: Because the trends that you offer will influence everyone else's, so what I want to do is get everyone's… everyone's thoughts in the chat. We'll make time… I can see lots of folks, I haven't come back yet.
Tim Frenneaux: We'll get everyone to pop their long-term trends in the chat.
Tim Frenneaux: And then we'll all press return at the same time, and then we're not influenced by everyone else's, so we'll see where we get to.
helena kettleborough: Tim, can I just check with you? Are you talking about long-term trends like climate change, or…
helena kettleborough: Biodiversity loss, or what… what… what… or business… what long-term.
Tim Frenneaux: Yes, but also, you know, social trends.
helena kettleborough: Okay, yeah, any long-term.
Tim Frenneaux: Any trends that shape the environment in which we're working with, and either propel us towards or pull us back from the future that we imagine?
helena kettleborough: Hmm.
helena kettleborough: Amy, I'm just checking, you're in Dublin, aren't you?
helena kettleborough: I mean, we're close… pretty close to Dublin, yes. Pretty close to Dublin, yeah, because we should be… when we should be ASP, we're international.
helena kettleborough: Yeah, that's what, that's what I'm thinking.
Tim Frenneaux: We are international. Welcome back, everyone. Just to say, we're gonna… we're gonna pop our long-term trends in the chat, but don't press send. So… so…
Tim Frenneaux: Give it a moment.
Tim Frenneaux: And we'll pop them in together, and then we'll see what we get to, and then we'll look at how we respond as an organization.
Tim Frenneaux: Sweet.
Tim Frenneaux: If you can give me a little thumbs up when you've got yours in.
Tim Frenneaux: T's in, Damien's in, Michelle's in…
Tim Frenneaux: The pressure. Gary's done.
Tim Frenneaux: Julia's done.
Tim Frenneaux: Mike's thinking long and hard about his long-term trends.
Tim Frenneaux: It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because there's so much. Right, we're going to count down from 3… 2…
Tim Frenneaux: 1. Hit return. Let's see what we've got.
Tim Frenneaux: Wow.
Tim Frenneaux: Economic inequality… AI… Energy against the challenges, kids less concerned about other ring, yeah? Fabulous.
Tim Frenneaux: Excellent. Growth in renewables, increased diversity, communication and connection, communication and connection. Feels so important for a network, doesn't it? Communication and connection.
Tim Frenneaux: Flip side, fake news, misinformation, AI, mass unemployment. I think, yeah, second time that AI has come up, that's clearly one. Entropy, wow.
Tim Frenneaux: science and Tech Advances… Greed and violence, health, well-being, emotional, physical… Surveillance, wow.
Tim Frenneaux: Amazing. And Damien's doing an amazing job of copying these notes into that. Thanks so much, Damien. Mike, what do you mean by entropy? I mean, I'm intrigued by your… by your.
Mike Zeidler: Sorry, I panicked, I didn't act.
Mike Zeidler: It's just a… it's just a rule of the natural world. Entropy will continue.
Michelle: I love that. Panic entropy,
Tim Frenneaux: I don't plan for food.
Gwyn: It's fundamentally the idea that all energy
Gwyn: deteriorates to its lowest form. Structure is energy, so therefore all matter will decay to… They have no structure.
Gwyn: And that is how… The universe will end.
Gwyn: But that's a few billion years off.
Gwyn: But I like the long-term thinking.
Mike Zeidler: Ray.
Tim Frenneaux: But I think that when you think about entropy in those senses.
Tim Frenneaux: you know, it draws attention to what are you working hard to sustain, and how could you sustain it by working less hard, which is possibly a way in. I mean, it's unsurprising that AI got lots of… lots of references there.
Tim Frenneaux: And that, that certainly seems like something that is… is… is…
Tim Frenneaux: almost opposed to our heart-led approach, so that might be something to talk about. Gwyn?
Gwyn: Just to pick up on that, AI and entropy are really good examples.
Gwyn: I'm a big fan of this book, Time of the Black Jaguar, by, Arkan Leshwala.
Gwyn: And he talks about the proven Indigenous ways of looking at change, and what they identify is that there are many, many different change cycles occurring simultaneously.
Gwyn: Some of them have got a frequency of a few decades. Some of them…
Gwyn: As they point out, they've got ones of 500-year cycles, 2,000-year cycles, and 26,000 year cycles. Now, how a mere human being has… can perceive a change cycle with a wavelength of 26,000 years, in other words, a complete cycle, is beyond me.
Gwyn: But there's lots about Indigenous don't understand.
Gwyn: What they do, though, is they keep in context all the different change cycles.
Gwyn: So there's not one thing happening at any time, there's lots of them, and some of them are reinforcing, and some of them are destructive interference.
Gwyn: And the book, Time of the Black Jaguar, is what the… A Time of the Black Jaguar is… a jaguar kills with one blow.
Gwyn: It's a very quick change, and in their calendar, in their way of thinking, we are now in that period.
Gwyn: Of a short-term, swift.
Gwyn: massive change that will occur over a period of 10, 15 years, and I wrote the book in 2011. But there's also these other waves of change happening.
Gwyn: Which, of course, could completely counteract it.
Gwyn: So where that's got me is to say, well.
Gwyn: The reason we're here today, one of the reasons we're here today, is that good always prevails So far.
Gwyn: We've gradually become less violent and more peaceful over the millennia.
Gwyn: And I think this is important to bear in mind, because it's so easy to get obsessed and sidetracked by the short-term events. You know, the rise of fascism, the rise of individualism, the rise of neoliberalism. But there are other trends happening as well, so…
Gwyn: For me, it just allows me to stay… actually, we've got… we've got more things going on than we…
Gwyn: probably perceive, so we… we shouldn't get too… depressed.
Gwyn: By some of the short-term negative things, because there are long-term positive things as well.
Gwyn: Even if we can't perceive them, but I think we should…
Gwyn: Try and keep our minds and our hearts open.
Gwyn: To these longer things, because they would have just as much influence as the short term, and might negate the short term.
Gwyn: Dope.
Gwyn: It's a difficult practice, but it helps me.
Tim Frenneaux: Lovely. Thank you, Gwen.
Tim Frenneaux: Damon, it looked like you wanted to pick on her.
Damien Mulligan: Yeah, I would agree very much with that. I think that when I consider this question, I actually…
Damien Mulligan: My initial reaction was to think long-term, bigger, bigger change, and so forth, and… I can't…
Damien Mulligan: now change some of these bigger things, but what I can do is I can become involved in what is happening on a local level, or whatever. And I think, you know, we see cities like Hamburg who voted for more stringent net-zero targets. We see cities like Shanghai and Beijing. I read this last week, Shanghai and Beijing
Damien Mulligan: their pollution levels have dropped remarkably in the last 10 years. Somebody talked about winding down the window, putting down the window in the car, and listening for all the noise, and there was no noise. Cars were all electric around.
Damien Mulligan: There was no smoke. You know, we've people… we have… the number of people cycling in London was up 70% from 2000 to 2017. We have… I saw a cool thing there earlier this week. Boston has built a dozen food forests in the city.
Damien Mulligan: on… Lots that were just… discarded or, or, or empty dots. And…
Damien Mulligan: They cool the city in the summer, and they allow underprivileged people access to green areas and fruit harvesting.
Damien Mulligan: And they're also changing land ownership models to community, rather than individual-led.
Damien Mulligan: If we look at Wales.
Damien Mulligan: you know, this is the future generations law, which means they have to… public bodies have to consider the impact on future generations. And I was the one that mentioned
Damien Mulligan: renewable energy. I mean, across Africa.
Damien Mulligan: the off-grid solar is changing people's lives and livelihoods. Around 4% of the population in Sub-Saharan Africa now has electricity that they didn't before, thanks to solar panels. And solar PV is the cheapest form of electricity in existence right now.
Damien Mulligan: So… so we're… none of these things are perfect. So, so if we go back to, to, and the reaction that some people will have, these are small things, but none of these are perfect.
Damien Mulligan: At the same time, none of them were true 10 years ago.
Damien Mulligan: We can't let perfect be the enemy of good right now.
Damien Mulligan: I think that… What does it all mean? I think it means that…
Damien Mulligan: there are people out there who are prepared to vote for what's right, who are prepared to make their voices heard when it's clear to them what the possibilities are, what the risks are if they don't act, and they're prepared to act as well. If you think back to what Jenny said about being, thinking, and doing.
Damien Mulligan: We have a community of people who care.
Damien Mulligan: We were full of awareness.
Damien Mulligan: knowledge and experience of how to make those things happen. And I believe…
Damien Mulligan: We're selling ourselves short, and selling future generations short, if we don't find ways to amplify our collective voices.
helena kettleborough: Hmm.
Damien Mulligan: To share that collective knowledge and experience.
Damien Mulligan: And open the doors to bring others into the fold, and play a greater part in changing the trajectory that humanity's on, because
Damien Mulligan: We don't want the trajectory we're headed for.
Damien Mulligan: We don't have to do it alone, either, because like Michelle said, there are… her starry universe, there are thousands of other networks and communities out there.
Damien Mulligan: And… thousands of other people. We see surveys.
Damien Mulligan: across the globe, and sometimes from right-leaning areas that demonstrate a significant majority of people want to see change for good. Maybe not calling it climate, but on nature and environment and well-being, the things that really matter to all of us.
Damien Mulligan: So I think, you mentioned, Tim, you mentioned,
Damien Mulligan: Bookminster, Fuller Resorts at the start.
helena kettleborough: Hmm.
Damien Mulligan: You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
Damien Mulligan: To change something, you have to build a new model, and, what is it?
Damien Mulligan: Make the old model obsolete.
Damien Mulligan: I think… There are people, businesses, and governments who are using technology and psychology and fear to thwart.
Damien Mulligan: The efforts of others, and… Toward, actually, where we were starting to make progress.
Damien Mulligan: And I think that those technologies and psychology can be used with love, respect, and equity.
Damien Mulligan: To amplify the efforts of
Damien Mulligan: And find new ways to change the working habits, or the modules of business, or government, or whatever, to more sustainable ones.
Damien Mulligan: And, you know, the question is.
Damien Mulligan: Given the strength of who we are in the community.
Damien Mulligan: Given our awareness of that, given our empathy and our care and our love, How are we doing, Lolf?
Tim Frenneaux: Nope.
helena kettleborough: Damien, I just want to say, I think you might have written our manifesto, actually. I just wanted to thank you so much for that, and say…
helena kettleborough: yeah, let's go for it. And I just want to add, let's put the birds and the, you know, the mammals in, and all the people around the world who are giving their lives, actually, to defend nature.
helena kettleborough: to defend the rhinos, you know, I think it's wonderful, and maybe that's our bit of ASP-ishness.
helena kettleborough: That that we go with that hope, and that's what we…
helena kettleborough: But not just hope, it's very practical. All those examples are practical. They're stuff. And I… I just want to add, in my neighborhood, in inner-city Manchester, we're going for a pilot. We're calling it a nature neighborhood.
helena kettleborough: And I'm… when… you know, I'm very happy to share the documents with you, but it's all about building green corridors, planting trees, organic food, you know? And these are local people, it's bottom up.
helena kettleborough: So, yeah, thank you. That is brilliant.
Tim Frenneaux: And clearly, heartfelt as well, which is… which is really important. Thank you, Daniel.
Damien Mulligan: Apologies if I got a little carried away, just at the moment, took me…
Tim Frenneaux: We can't apologize. Beautiful. Can't apologize. Nothing to apologize.
Tim Frenneaux: Any… anyone else?
Tim Frenneaux: We do all need to get carried away, Kate. That's absolutely right.
Tim Frenneaux: And create environments that allows each other to get carried away.
Tim Frenneaux: Great.
Gwyn: Yeah, something that's only been touched upon, is the global aspects.
Gwyn: You know, ASP is very much a Eurocentric, UK-centric.
Gwyn: We've got quite good representation in, North America.
Gwyn: But recently, we've had half a dozen utterly amazing, all-women join, and members join from Africa, from different countries. And I've been speaking with them and then talking to people that they're influenced by.
Gwyn: And there's just this… Massive.
Gwyn: full of incredibly effective change agents.
Gwyn: And they're just full of positivism.
Gwyn: And arguably, you know, the biggest changes in sustainability will come in those environments. Damien was talking about the micro generation. There are places there that have 19 hours a day of blackouts.
Gwyn: So they don't have internet, so they can't take part. But this micro-generation.
Gwyn: And Mashuda is partly involved in that as well, with his hydrogen cell mitochondria work. It's just enabling these people just to
Gwyn: communicate, connect, and do some amazing projects. And they're doing really simple grassroots projects that have massive impact.
Gwyn: on, on, on the… Environments, but also having massive impacts on businesses and corporates who want to work there.
Gwyn: And… I think this is something that…
Gwyn: we've never really had the bandwidth to focus on, but I could see us, over the next year or so, literally having, like, an African ASP group.
Gwyn: And once we learn to give away.
Gwyn: maybe Damien's manifesto, like, Gavin Fernley Jones gives away his manifesto of how he runs his company, so give that away free.
Gwyn: That would enable groups like us to spring up all over the world.
Gwyn: That we don't need to control, but we're just influencing.
Gwyn: And there are groups like us, so we're not the only one, but I think someone's saying, you know, spreading the message, reaching out to people.
Gwyn: I think we can do an awful lot of that in the next 12 months.
Gwyn: And maybe Lou can help us…
Gwyn: establish something in Australia, because we can't work on the same time zone, but they can be encouraged to adopt
Gwyn: The principles and values and ways of being.
Gwyn: That we do, that resonate for them, that fit in their culture.
Gwyn: And there's so much we can learn from them. And one thing that's really…
Gwyn: clear to me is that none of these women have been educated in European or American universities.
Gwyn: And it just is so obvious.
Gwyn: They're just so… Yeah, that's… they just don't… they're not locked in to the status quo.
Gwyn: They're far more adventurous.
Gwyn: And… and positive, they just believe they can make change. It's no doubt. And I think there's enormous…
Gwyn: Co-learning from both sides there.
Gwyn: I just… just want to put that on under Start Doing. Maybe we can…
Gwyn: Open that up as a real possibility.
Tim Frenneaux: Hmm.
Tim Frenneaux: Lovely. Thanks, Greg.
Tim Frenneaux: Okay, so… I mean, what a wide-ranging conversation.
Tim Frenneaux: we need, as we're coming into the final half hour, we need to start bringing it all back together. So really, the question is… is what does this mean for ASP? Who could we be? So…
Tim Frenneaux: what we're going to do is we're going to go back into small breakout groups. There's three breakout groups. Each one is going to look at who we could be for different people. So one is going to look at who we could be for members.
Tim Frenneaux: One is going to look at who we could be for businesses and organizations. One is going to look at who we can be for the rest of life on Earth and future generations, so it's the more than human world and future generations.
Tim Frenneaux: You've been put into rooms randomly. If you don't feel like you're in the right one, let me know, and I'll pop you into a different one. We're going to spend 10 minutes here. Please do capture your thoughts on the Miro board. You don't all need to be doing it, but if there's one person in each room that can do it, that would be fab.
Tim Frenneaux: We'll spend 10 minutes on this, and then we'll get back together, we'll discuss this, and then we'll finish at half past.
Tim Frenneaux: Is that okay, everybody?
Tim Frenneaux: Right, I'm gonna pop you all in. If you don't feel you're in the right room, just let me know, and I'll pop you in a different room.
Julia Sansome: Don't join.
Julia Sansome: one as well. Shall I join one as well? .
Tim Frenneaux: Yeah, pick your, pick your, pick your favorite.
Julia Sansome: Okay, great. I don't really mind, to be honest, so I can go into any one. I'll go into the one that Tracy's in, because she says she has to leave in.
Tim Frenneaux: Right, yeah.
Julia Sansome: Yeah, that's book.
Tim Frenneaux: Excited. Okay.
Julia Sansome: I'll see you guys in a bit. Cool.
Tim Frenneaux: Thanks, Juliet.