Tim Frenneaux: members, and our relationship between others. So, I'd like to hear back from either the Business and Organizations group, or the future generations before we… before we hear back from who we can be for members. Tim Frenneaux: Mike was there. Mike Zeidler: When I was there, I was kind of happy to sort of talk… report on our, business and other organizations. We had a really interesting Mike Zeidler: conversation with Sally, Michelle, and I. Dream team started the session together, and with, you know, that session as well. So, we were in sync. Sally, I kind of summarized her, input as, you know, don't judge what's there, don't fight it. Mike Zeidler: let go and lead from the heart. I think what we were trying to do was describe organiza… you know, ways of, I guess, manifesting Mike Zeidler: ASP in organisational terms. Mike Zeidler: and Michelle, talked about modeling different ways of being in business, for example, using the children's fire and meetings, or bringing nature onto the board. There was another example which I didn't type fast enough. Mike Zeidler: And then I had 35 seconds at the end. Mike Zeidler: To… to make a contribution, and so I went… I panicked and said, something about time, which I then… Mike Zeidler: written about, finding ways of allowing time to reflect. I've only got as far as to saying reflect more deeply, and reflect more meaningfully, and reflect in different ways. I think that, sort of, that… Mike Zeidler: Dwelling time, is missing a lot of the time in our… M… Efficiency, productivity-focused world. Tim Frenneaux: Thanks, do it. Michelle, Sally, either of you want to add anything? sally Daley: Well, I did say, which is something I said in the meeting, sally Daley: just about the nature of what I see, and what we're aiming for, so it's the two together. sally Daley: In the present world, there is a lot of violence and anger. I don't think most people would disagree with that. sally Daley: And a lot of it is… In a nutshell. sally Daley: People who are emotionally immature, and therefore very separated because it's all about ego, in positions where they are basically making a hash of the whole thing. sally Daley: You know, it's about emotional maturity, and that means… The willingness to… sally Daley: Go beneath the level of ego and power and status. sally Daley: And these things have been very prevalent in a patriarchal world. All the issues of patriarchy relate very much to me, as a female who's felt the brunt of it. sally Daley: So it's a real challenge, but it seems to me it's coming to its end. sally Daley: And that's my vision for the world, that there is another thing waiting in the wings, and it's the milk of human kindness, and it will transform the world. sally Daley: So that's my vision for ASP and business, and… sally Daley: All things pertaining to life in general. sally Daley: That's fine. Tim Frenneaux: Michelle, you were muted, did you want to add anything? Michelle: No, it's fine, it was just on that. I've stuck it in the, in the chat, so it's alright. Tim Frenneaux: Wow. Cheers. Tim Frenneaux: In the spirit of milk of… milk of human kindness, can… can we hear from future generations? Tim Frenneaux: There's lots of stuff on the board there. helena kettleborough: Gary, do you want to… you did all the writing, that'd be lovely. gary spinks: Sure, yeah, thanks, Helena. gary spinks: Yeah, so we were looking, the first thought was around, ASP being thought leaders. gary spinks: And also thought sharers. gary spinks: But also in the sense of… gary spinks: That helping to drive things forward, so not just about the thoughts, but… Making things happen. Tim Frenneaux: There's a really strong theme about that coming through today, about that… making it tangible and actionable, I suppose. gary spinks: That's right, yeah, and that also links into, being able to share positive examples of what's already being done out there. So, we're talking about how, in the mainstream media, all you see is the doom and gloom. gary spinks: And… but actually, if you look at all the people and groups and communities that are doing all this amazing work in… gary spinks: nature and sustainability and regenerative degrowth. You know, it's huge and it's vast, but it's just not being seen. So part of what we can do is say, well, we can actually share more of what's happening there. gary spinks: But also in our own practice, we… we can also be exemplars, so we can do that through our behaviors and practices and values, so we… we're, if you like, saying, well, this is… this is how… gary spinks: How we're being and doing gary spinks: And we think that's… that hopefully that other people will… will see that as a… as a good thing. gary spinks: We can be, educators. gary spinks: And that links into the importance of children, because I think, as Helen was saying, they love nature, and they have that very, I think, much closer connection with nature, which perhaps we lose as we get… or some of us lose as we get older. So they are our future, so I think, gary spinks: work around there, is how can we connect more with children and support the… gary spinks: Education and action by… by children. gary spinks: So there's that raising awareness, again, to help people do something. gary spinks: So it's… it's that awareness and engagement, but then moving into… to action. And there was also, gary spinks: the, opportunity for ASP to be some kind of sponsor. gary spinks: You know, what can we support in that, in that sense? gary spinks: And those were our main… main thoughts on that. gary spinks: Don't know if Helena or… Tim Frenneaux: How… how do you mean sponsor? Can you, can you… gary spinks: So I think that was Jenny who was talking about that. gary spinks: Don't know if Jenny wants to talk further on that. jenny wardle: Supporting new ideas in some way. jenny wardle: maybe being a body that does fund new stuff, or helps new things get grants, or whatever. I don't know, but jenny wardle: Sponsoring and promoting new New ideas, new things. Tim Frenneaux: Well, thank you. Tim Frenneaux: And was there anything else that you, either of you wanted to add? helena kettleborough: No, that was brilliant, but I just want to add very… a very point about it's so urgent, what we need to do for nature because of what we're doing to the climate, so trying to bring the very urgency in with the action and the thinking. Tim Frenneaux: Absolutely. Tim Frenneaux: Back to that thing about this… this pivotal time that… Gwyn's Jaguar, striking. Tim Frenneaux: And what about the members group? Mike Zeidler: Sorry, can I just ask one… have we got time for me to ask just one, or leave a seed, or leave a question? Mike Zeidler: Tim, or Jimmy DeNot? Tim Frenneaux: No, of course, go. Mike Zeidler: Justin, so one of the… I've noticed quite a few Mike Zeidler: Different networks, talking about intergenerational. Mike Zeidler: dialogues, I guess, and I've really enjoyed a number of books that, are written Mike Zeidler: from either, you know, through… threading stories through trees, and tree lifespans, like the overstory, there's a… there's a book called… oh, crikey, I've just finished reading it, about a fig tree, but it's about… Mike Zeidler: connections through… Mike Zeidler: plant life, I suppose, and different… in different notes. So I'm just curious if there are any other stories around… Mike Zeidler: other ways of telling stories that people are keen on. Don't need to answer that now, because I know we haven't got much time, but I'm… Mike Zeidler: I'm curious. Tim Frenneaux: You know, we need to find ways to give voice to those who don't have a voice in the process as it stands. Tim Frenneaux: And stories are a way to do that. Proud. Thanks, Mike. Tim Frenneaux: Hmm… what… who could ASP be for members? Tim Frenneaux: Who wants the feedback from that session? Damien Mulligan: Well, just as we were finishing, Kate actually was saying something, maybe it'd be worthwhile. Kate had the opportunity to go into more detail about, what was it? It was about everything we have in the community. Damien Mulligan: are in common with the community. We bring our experience and the knowledge, how can we collectively amplify that within and outside ASP? Damien Mulligan: Kate, do you wanna… Kate Smith: Well delegated. Yeah, so I think… Kate Smith: So, I think we talked about a few things. So, Damien was making… Kate Smith: a really good point about how there are different types of members joining ASP now, and I guess I would count myself as one of those, so I guess I'm kind of assuming that there are a lot of Kate Smith: well-established, sort of sustainability experts, people that have worked in sustainability for many, many years, have lots of knowledge and experience about Kate Smith: the world of sustainability and all that comes with that, and I think what we were saying was that Kate Smith: Perhaps other people join who don't necessarily have that level of knowledge, or that kind of direct background. Kate Smith: I think there were a few things that we were saying. One is, how do we… Kate Smith: Make sure that everybody understands what it is that we're all talking about, so… Kate Smith: Try to avoid using language or examples that perhaps would be… Kate Smith: not necessarily understood by everybody in the room, depending on, kind of, where everybody's, kind of, come from and what their level of expertise was. Demi was particularly talking about, kind of, younger people maybe coming in and joining, the organization, or at least being interested. So I think that that was that piece about language. Kate Smith: Then, we were talking about, how… Kate Smith: it feels like ASP is a community of changemakers, and I just need to go back to the board now and actually just sort of make sure I'm quoting Damien correctly. Kate Smith: Because what he was then saying was, rather than being a community of changemakers and potential changemakers, a change-making community. So, we were kind of almost pulling that apart a little bit and trying to explore that. Kate Smith: And then… Basically, almost kind of saying, okay, so if… Kate Smith: Regardless of background or experience or profession or level of understanding and knowledge about what's going on. Kate Smith: I guess the one thing that we all have in common Kate Smith: that's joined ASP is that we're all Kate Smith: passionate about the planet. We're all passionate about creating a better future, and that actually How do we… Kate Smith: Almost connect all of the different experiences and levels of knowledge and Kate Smith: Skill set and mindset that come into that space. Kate Smith: In a way that then amplifies everything. Kate Smith: Rather than kind of almost, oh, well, you've got your sustainability thing over here, and I've got my well-being thing over there, and I've got my business expertise over here. It's almost like, how do we… Kate Smith: Bring all that together using shared language that we all understand, and also then Kate Smith: Kind of acknowledging that we've all come here for a common purpose. Kate Smith: And we all then can share, kind of, our… Kate Smith: And knowledge and experiences with each other in a, in a… Kate Smith: more collective way. Did that… Damia, did that sound… and Tari and Julia, did that kind of sound like… Kate Smith: What we were talking about. Kate Smith: I think that's what we were saying. Kate Smith: Oh, and me and Tracy were also saying that we hadn't got a clue what was going on with some Dimension Quantum earlier on, and that's an example. Kate Smith: of, like, somebody mentioned, oh yeah, from the quantum thing, and I was, like, going, yeah, and I was nodding along wisely. I had no idea what we were talking about. Kate Smith: So I think… Tim Frenneaux: I don't think we've got time to explain that right now. Kate Smith: Just on a postcard. Tim Frenneaux: That thing of… I love the… I love the framing of rather than a community of changemakers, it's a change-making community. Again, it's… there is a theme coming through this whole session of… Tim Frenneaux: of connecting the values to ways of being and doing, and using that to project what ASP is in… so that it manifests in organisations, or it manifests in places. Tim Frenneaux: That seems… that seems really powerful, and… and very consistent in all the… in all the bits of conversation. That… that… that seems to be what's coming through. Tim Frenneaux: Does anyone want to… Tim Frenneaux: pick up or develop any of those ideas? Has anyone got any questions that you're still holding? Mike Zeidler: Can I just… on Kate's point, I think it's… for me, that feels like a really brilliant, clear, and simple reflection of that idea of… it was the quantum point, the bit about having a, on the one hand. Mike Zeidler: clear manifestos, which, you know, however you write it, is going to be written in a language that is fixed, because that's a manifesto, and there it is. And then having the kind of… Mike Zeidler: the Harry Potter Room of Requirement thing, you know, where you kind of… whoever comes are the right people. It's the open space thing. So, it's those people talking about the things they care about and the terms they understand to do the things they want to do. Mike Zeidler: And it makes sense to them, because that's who they are and where they are. And I think those two things, that's a bit what I was saying earlier on about ASP is both of those things. helena kettleborough: And guys, I know it's a tiny bit late, because we've got, like, 7 minutes, 5 minutes, but I just want to add into the mix, so it's recorded, is that obviously with ASP, we have been doing two things. We've been trying to share the ideas about transformative learning. helena kettleborough: through Action Research. So, if you haven't seen it, it's on our website. Go and look for it. It'd be really, really good if you want to feed back on what you think about what we've done, and how do we keep that learning going? helena kettleborough: and make it accessible and open. But the other thing is, we have tried to have, Earth Conversations, which was bring… which is bringing in inspiring speakers, and because I've got involved with other stuff, it's really hard to keep everything going. helena kettleborough: There hasn't been any Earth conversations for a few months, but we have done 3 sessions of action research this year. helena kettleborough: with some really brilliant people, so I just want to add that in, and say to people, please. helena kettleborough: if you haven't looked at it, please have a look at it, and then we can bring that, and maybe in December, you know, when we're reflecting, you can have a look and think, how do we build on what we're already doing. helena kettleborough: And try and make it bigger, or not maybe bigger, but more accessible, and part of what we do. So that's a little plea from me, and I'm sorry it's a bit late in the session, that you have a look at what we've already got out there. Not to say it's right, but the vision is to try and share helena kettleborough: deeper ways of learning. Thank you. Tim Frenneaux: coronavirus. Tim Frenneaux: Is anyone left holding any questions? What's the… Tim Frenneaux: What's the thing that we've not touched on as we've been thinking about the future, about our vision for who ASCB can be? Tim Frenneaux: What have we not touched on? What questions are you still holding? jenny wardle: Does ASP have a role in, lobbying. jenny wardle: We've not talked about politics and what's happening there, and what… more… more importantly, what's not happening there. jenny wardle: So is there an activism role? I don't know. Tim Frenneaux: Question. I'll pop it in the questions, but it's still holding. Gwyn: Yeah, it's a question for the future. We haven't had one in the past, because ASP Community doesn't have the wherewithal to create a voice. Gwyn: It is now, and this is what's arising because of the 3H. So, I think it's a really valid question for the future. Gwyn: we're moving into that capability. And maybe, I think, that responsibility. So, we need to explore that. Tim Frenneaux: Thank you. Great example of a… of a question that's still out there, that's still… still to be resolved. Tim Frenneaux: Michelle. Michelle: I've got a quick question. I think it's probably just on, like, our… Michelle: our kind of, I don't know, back-end stuff, I suppose. There's, like, you know, there is… Michelle: there is a capacity to run an organization that is required in any great form, and we've not really touched on it. We've spoken… Michelle: like, the directors feel happy for us to suddenly not be directors anymore in future, and dissolve power into different structures, but there still needs to be… it still needs to be held in some shape or form, and I guess that would be a question that's still out there as well. Tim Frenneaux: January question. Very Horizon 2. But that, you're absolutely right. We can't have this conversation without it landing back in the organization. What shape is it? What resources does it draw, and how does it structure itself? How does it organize itself? Tim Frenneaux: Thank you. jenny wardle: Only other question I have is what's next? Tim Frenneaux: Rest. Rest is next. So, so December is a month of reflection. Tim Frenneaux: Because we're all going to be busy with family things, and friend things, and all the things that happen in December. Tim Frenneaux: But that's… we've already talked about, the need to make space and time for reflection, and so that's already what we've worked into the system. So December is a time for us to reflect on all of this, on our understanding of what we're letting go, what we're moving away from from Horizon 1, what we want to move towards from Horizon 3. Tim Frenneaux: So if… If anyone wants to share Tim Frenneaux: thoughts on that, if anyone's got a particular practice that they want to bring to bear, there's plenty time to do that. We can take… we can take thoughts, you know, people might want to write blog posts or articles or whatever, or run a session to… Tim Frenneaux: to delve a little deeper into quantum mechanics and what it means for the work of an organization like this. Because this is what we're trying to get to, is a… Tim Frenneaux: is a… is a… Tim Frenneaux: an awareness field where people feel they can make contributions in the way and at the time that is right for them, rather than the organization saying, right, now's the time for you to do so-and-so. Tim Frenneaux: So, it's, it's, it's working through emergence. Tim Frenneaux: And then in January, we'll look at that… we'll try and bring it all together and say, well, how do we… how do we make the bridge? Like, we'll answer Michelle's question about… or we'll start to answer it, we won't get there, about, well, what resources do we need to deploy to make this happen, and look at other organizations and other examples that we can work with or learn from. Tim Frenneaux: And then after that, basically, that is when we'll get to the point of, well, we need to put this into action and make changes to different parts of the policy and the structure, and I know Candace is working on work on the website. Tim Frenneaux: So, from February onwards, it starts to… this talking and thinking and reflecting will turn into the actual transformation piece. Damien Mulligan: And Gwen is also mentioned there in the chat. Damien Mulligan: an AGM coming up in December for all members to get a look inside the organization, the ops and numbers, etc, just to have an understanding. Damien Mulligan: As we're going forward. Damien Mulligan: What might need to change, if there's a directional change, or if there's more to be asked of the organization? Tim Frenneaux: Well… Tim Frenneaux: Everybody, thank you so much for all of your fabulous contributions. We were chatting while you were in breakout groups about how the process is working. We've got such richness on that board. It's a brilliant representation of where we are as an organization and how we're working, so… Tim Frenneaux: Thank you so much for all of that. Tim Frenneaux: I'm looking forward to some time just to… just to let it percolate, and cogitate, and all those 8 words. Tim Frenneaux: I'm gonna, I'm gonna 8-word my, my, my December. Probably most of November as well. Tim Frenneaux: Fab! Tim Frenneaux: Mmm… Michelle: Thanks, Leslie. Damien Mulligan: Thank you, Tim. Mike Zeidler: Thank you so much, Tim. Just one other question. I just… I had a quick look at the members pages on our website. We've got so many pages of them, it's brilliant, so we obviously have lots and lots of members now. Are they… are we also inviting them to contribute to this Horizon Mike Zeidler: process with some forms or some questions that would add, you know, or… Gwyn: Nothing to tell you, even though. Tim Frenneaux: So everyone's been invited to these… to these sessions, but then when we… Tim Frenneaux: go back… we go back via gaggle mail to say, here's what we learned, here's what came out of this session, do you want to build on that? So that's what we did at the end of Horizon… at the end of the last workshop, put out a little email that said, here's a few points about what we learned. Tim Frenneaux: do you… does that spark anything? Do you want to take it anywhere? And that's what we'll do again after this one. So there'll be a little summary that goes out to say, here's the best we can do at making sense of this in email form. Do you want to respond? Do you want to do that? Do you want to make any contributions? So yeah, absolutely, it's a… it's a… as open as a process as we can make. Damien Mulligan: And bear in mind as well, one of the first steps in the whole process was the consultation that we sent out by email, and we had, what was it, 44 members who contributed feedback in that as well, so all of that's got to come up in the context of this and be slotted in somehow into the whole process. Mike Zeidler: I just recognizing that I know you guys are doing a lot of work, sort of. Mike Zeidler: around and behind the scenes and in between, and I just wanted to appreciate it. Gwyn: And in true ASP form, Mike, nothing's planned. We're literally responding to each event and seeing what's necessary, so there's open, totally open and flexible. So, as Damien said, we've already done one survey. Gwyn: There might be topics that we really say to the members, look, we really need Gwyn: a concentrated focus on this one issue. Can we, you know, can you please, you know, fill in this form, or Google form, or whatever, to drill down on certain issues, like funding and all sorts of things. So, all those possibilities are still there, nothing's ruled out. Gwyn: So, in other words, if you've got any great ideas, as you normally do. Gwyn: Send them in, they'll be gratefully received.